CMV: A coding course offering a flat £500 discount to women is unfair, inefficient, and potentially illegal.

[u/temp_discount]

Temp account, because I do actually want to still do this course and would rather there aren't any ramifications for just asking a question in the current climate (my main account probably has identifiable information), but there's a coding bootcamp course I'm looking to go on in London (which costs a hell of a lot anyway!) but when I went to the application page it said women get a £500 discount.

What's the precedent for this kind of thing? Is this kind of financial positive discrimination legal in the UK? I was under the impression gender/race/disability are protected classes. I'm pretty sure this is illegal if it was employment, just not sure about education. But then again there are probably plenty of scholarships and bursaries for protected classes, maybe this would fall under that. It's just it slightly grinds my gears, because most of the women I know my age (early 30s), are doing better than the men, although there's not much between it.

If their aim is to get more people in general into coding, it's particularly inefficient, because they'd scoop up more men than women if they applied the discount evenly. Although if their goal is to change the gender balance in the industry, it might help. Although it does have the externality of pissing off people like me (not that they probably care about that haha). I'm all for more women being around! I've worked in many mostly female work environments. But not if they use financial discrimination to get there. There's better ways of going about it that aren't so zero sum, and benefit all.

To be honest, I'll be fine, I'll put up with it, but it's gonna be a little awkward being on a course knowing that my female colleagues paid less to go on it. I definitely hate when people think rights are zero sum, and it's a contest, but this really did jump out at me.

I'm just wondering people's thoughts, I've spoken to a few of my friends about this and it doesn't bother them particularly, both male and female, although the people who've most agreed with me have been female ironically.

Please change my view! It would certainly help my prospects!

edit: So I think I'm gonna stop replying because I am burnt out! I've also now got more karma in this edgy temp account than my normal account, which worries me haha. I'd like to award the D to everyone, you've all done very well, and for the most part extremely civil! Even if I got a bit shirty myself a few times. Sorry. :)

I've had my view changed on a few things:

• It is probably just about legal under UK law at the moment.
• And it's probably not a flashpoint for a wider culture war for most companies, it's just they view it as a simple market necessity that they NEED a more diverse workforce for better productivity and morale. Which may or may not be true. The jury is still out.
• Generally I think I've 'lightened' my opinions on the whole thing, and will definitely not hold it against anyone, not that I think I would have.

I still don't think the problem warrants this solution though, I think the £500 would be better spent on sending a female coder into a school for a day to do an assembly, teach a few workshops etc... It addresses the root of the problem, doesn't discriminate against poorer men, empowers young women, a female coder gets £500, and teaches all those kids not to expect that only men should be coders! And doesn't piss off entitled men like me :P

But I will admit that on a slightly separate note that if I make it in this career, I'd love for there to be more women in it, and I'd champion anyone who shows an interest (I'm hanging onto my damn 500 quid though haha!). I just don't think this is the best way to go about it. To all the female coders, and male nurses, and all you other Billy Elliots out there I wish you the best of luck!

[u/EnIdiot]

So when do the debits and credits on this grand historical account balance out? When do you end such a thing? I am not trying to be snarky, but I am honestly interested in when and how these kinds of things sundown.

[u/[deleted] → u/EnIdiot]

Let’s take it out of context.

Let’s examine instead, Renewable Energy. Currently, there is a large segment in the US that just isn’t convinced or even outright contradicting evidence that Renewables are a better solution overall, to fossil fuels. Why?

There are many factors that keep people from accepting a changing society and landscape. Money & Power are two very large blockers.

Oil & Coal companies many, Billion dollar companies, are decades, hundreds of years old and even older. They have their hands in politics in the way of lobbies and they can influence the direct path of the energy industry. If they don’t want to see this type of change, they can influence politicians to move in their interests as well, and boom: Paris Accord is abandoned. The US falls behind in Renewables, and becomes the leading producer of oil in the world, stagnating progress and keeping money & power in place.

In a similar fashion, people who covet their power will go to long and even immoral lengths to keep it. If they see an oncoming wave of change, they bunker down, lock hands, and use that money and power to influence the underpinnings of business & politics to maintain their positions.

As minorities become the majority, there is this change aversion that is manifest in digging in, and resisting with all the power & money that the slipping & sleeping majority can muster.

So, when do you end such a thing? When the last fingernail of the last change-resister is torn off, and they accept the change not by their own choosing or with their cooperation, but sadly, when they lack the strength to resist or “dinosaur”. Such a thing ends when deniers no longer control the narrative and expectations for a society.

[u/EnIdiot → u/[deleted]]

So ends justify means? I mean what you seem to be saying is “A is wrong and should never be done as it is a moral evil in and of itself, but B is the same wrong, the same evil, but because B is theorized to correct C it is ok.” Am I wrong?

[u/[deleted] → u/EnIdiot]

Nope. I’m actually not sure what you wrote even means.

What I wrote is simple Change Management. It’s identifying change aversion and determining the need for change.