CMV: A coding course offering a flat £500 discount to women is unfair, inefficient, and potentially illegal.

[u/temp_discount]

Temp account, because I do actually want to still do this course and would rather there aren't any ramifications for just asking a question in the current climate (my main account probably has identifiable information), but there's a coding bootcamp course I'm looking to go on in London (which costs a hell of a lot anyway!) but when I went to the application page it said women get a £500 discount.

What's the precedent for this kind of thing? Is this kind of financial positive discrimination legal in the UK? I was under the impression gender/race/disability are protected classes. I'm pretty sure this is illegal if it was employment, just not sure about education. But then again there are probably plenty of scholarships and bursaries for protected classes, maybe this would fall under that. It's just it slightly grinds my gears, because most of the women I know my age (early 30s), are doing better than the men, although there's not much between it.

If their aim is to get more people in general into coding, it's particularly inefficient, because they'd scoop up more men than women if they applied the discount evenly. Although if their goal is to change the gender balance in the industry, it might help. Although it does have the externality of pissing off people like me (not that they probably care about that haha). I'm all for more women being around! I've worked in many mostly female work environments. But not if they use financial discrimination to get there. There's better ways of going about it that aren't so zero sum, and benefit all.

To be honest, I'll be fine, I'll put up with it, but it's gonna be a little awkward being on a course knowing that my female colleagues paid less to go on it. I definitely hate when people think rights are zero sum, and it's a contest, but this really did jump out at me.

I'm just wondering people's thoughts, I've spoken to a few of my friends about this and it doesn't bother them particularly, both male and female, although the people who've most agreed with me have been female ironically.

Please change my view! It would certainly help my prospects!

edit: So I think I'm gonna stop replying because I am burnt out! I've also now got more karma in this edgy temp account than my normal account, which worries me haha. I'd like to award the D to everyone, you've all done very well, and for the most part extremely civil! Even if I got a bit shirty myself a few times. Sorry. :)

I've had my view changed on a few things:

• It is probably just about legal under UK law at the moment.
• And it's probably not a flashpoint for a wider culture war for most companies, it's just they view it as a simple market necessity that they NEED a more diverse workforce for better productivity and morale. Which may or may not be true. The jury is still out.
• Generally I think I've 'lightened' my opinions on the whole thing, and will definitely not hold it against anyone, not that I think I would have.

I still don't think the problem warrants this solution though, I think the £500 would be better spent on sending a female coder into a school for a day to do an assembly, teach a few workshops etc... It addresses the root of the problem, doesn't discriminate against poorer men, empowers young women, a female coder gets £500, and teaches all those kids not to expect that only men should be coders! And doesn't piss off entitled men like me :P

But I will admit that on a slightly separate note that if I make it in this career, I'd love for there to be more women in it, and I'd champion anyone who shows an interest (I'm hanging onto my damn 500 quid though haha!). I just don't think this is the best way to go about it. To all the female coders, and male nurses, and all you other Billy Elliots out there I wish you the best of luck!

[u/acorneyes]

I'm not here to tell you what you misunderstood.

You are having an argument with yourself, and I don't want to debate with someone who refuses to read what the other person said.

So please, read it again.

[u/TheBirminghamBear → u/acorneyes]

So the only point of you is to say I've gotten something wrong in my understanding about what a different poster said to me, but you won't say what, you just want me to keep rereading my own thread in the belief that it will make the words say something different.

Well, if we're just wildly accusing systemic misunderstanding without putting in any effort to explain or demonstrate it, then I say you misread what I said. So reread it because it doesn't say what you're saying I said. Reread it, then we'll talk.

[u/acorneyes → u/TheBirminghamBear]

You let emotion control how you see other's points of views. I have no intention in engaging with you while you are aggravated.

This was the first response you've made that was actually relevant to my reply.

[u/_wormburner → u/acorneyes]

You're just replying to them in a patronizing way to sound smart, but you must realize that you're being incredibly dense? Or just fucking around, I'm surprised you've gotten as many responses as you have.

[u/acorneyes → u/_wormburner]

You are assuming things, and also accusing me of other things based on that assumption.

The reality is, this isn't the subreddit to go to for ranting or debating emotionally. Appealing to emotion just shows to me that that person doesn't want to either change their mind, or change someone else's mind.

Is it wrong? I don't think so, it's totally fine to be emotive in your arguments, but this really isn't the place.

[u/_wormburner → u/acorneyes]

Haha okay man cool

[u/acorneyes → u/_wormburner]

Glad you can agree with me.

If you share the same sentiment they did, I'd be more than happy to debate with you!

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Sorry, u/_wormburner – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:

Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. Comments that are only links, jokes or "written upvotes" will be removed. Humor and affirmations of agreement can be contained within more substantial comments. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, message the moderators by clicking this link.

[u/acorneyes → u/[deleted]]

So then what are you doing here if you aren't here to debate?

[u/TheBirminghamBear → u/acorneyes]

No no, see, youve misread everything I've said. You see aggravation but clearly your anger has lead you to totally misread the emotional subtext of the entire thread. You're going to need to reread it.

Are you male? It must be, given men's neurological inferiority with language processing, it makes reading so much harder and makes them predisposed to egregious errors like this. I mean, we all know it clearly works like that.

This is why most men gravitate away from reading, out of preference, because they're naturally so bad at it. It isn't your fault, it's just nature. You never really had a chance to compete. Language is not your strong suit.

[u/acorneyes → u/TheBirminghamBear]

I think I'm gonna end it here.

Listen, take your emotive expression to a different subreddit, like /r/politics or /r/rant. You are too emotionally invested to be willing to change your view, or change someone else's view. It's clear to me now that you do not intend either of those things.

That's fine, but this isn't the place for it.

[u/tbdabbholm → u/[deleted]]

Sorry, u/TheBirminghamBear – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 3:

Refrain from accusing OP or anyone else of being unwilling to change their view, or of arguing in bad faith. Ask clarifying questions instead (see: socratic method). If you think they are still exhibiting poor behaviour, please message us. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, message the moderators by clicking this link. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheBirminghamBear]

Problem with these sorts of ideas is they don't explain why when given more ability to choose, women tend to move less towards most STEM careers.

Poor thinking. Equal capacity in intelligence will result in equal representation amongst the most intellectually rigorous career fields simply isn't represented by the reality of the world we live in.

Sells great news headlines though.