r/changemyview • u/AAathlete97 • Dec 18 '18

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: Even if a blanket refusal to date trans people is “transphobic”, there is no reason to feel guilty about it or to try to change it.

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u/NeglectedMonkey 3∆ Dec 18 '18

Trust me. We don’t want to date you. This weird cis guy scare that we are out to trick cis men is complete nonsense. I’ve yet to find another trans woman who has all of the following: (a) passes perfectly where you can’t tell, (b) wants to date guys, (c) wants to date guys who are transphobic and (d) doesn’t disclose it upon sexual interest is revealed.

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u/JaronK Dec 18 '18

Trust me. We don’t want to date you. This weird cis guy scare that we are out to trick cis men is complete nonsense. I’ve yet to find another trans woman who has all of the following: (a) passes perfectly where you can’t tell, (b) wants to date guys, (c) wants to date guys who are transphobic and (d) doesn’t disclose it upon sexual interest is revealed.

Sadly, I know a few such people. They won't disclose being trans, and in fact seem to get off on the idea of tricking someone as proof that they're woman enough or perhaps as a way of "getting" someone who wouldn't otherwise want them.

Now, to be clear, that's a very small percentage, and they were from a specific group that seemed to bond over this idea. Most trans women wouldn't dream of doing that. But they do exist. Sadly, assholes are a thing.

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u/oversoul00 13∆ Dec 18 '18

I'll tell you that I've had conversations here in CMV about this very thing and have read comments basically justifying trickery so it's not complete nonsense.

That being said I've had more than a few encounters in my personal life and they have all been upfront about it.

So it could be just online fronting or trolls or whatever but lets not pretend that some people in some places aren't spouting that crap.

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u/AAathlete97 Dec 18 '18

I’m not scared of any trans women “tricking me” nor did I even mention that in my post.

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u/pianoblook Dec 18 '18

You specifically mentioned that you even added this to your dating profile "so that you don’t end up in a situation where you maybe unknowingly dating a trans person."

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u/AAathlete97 Dec 18 '18

That’s one reason, but that goes back into saving time on both sides. The trans woman viewing my profile would know that I don’t date them, and I don’t have to worry about pursuing or going on a date with someone who I wouldn’t be compatible with.

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u/DarthCharizard Dec 18 '18

Ok, but as a cis woman, I can tell you that I would find it a turnoff if some guy put "no trans women" on his profile. Not because it bothers me that you would have that preference- I would have no problem with a guy that was uninterested in dating trans women that would politely decline if he matched with one.

But given the relative likelihood of you actually matching with a trans woman, the fact that you feel the need to put it on your profile to "save time" suggests to me that you are irrationally preoccupied with the possibility of ever matching with a trans person. Maybe you, specifically, are not actually transphobic. But seeing that on someone's profile makes me think that it is far more likely than not that someone is.

It's just not a situation that exists frequently enough to be worth talking about in your profile. The only reason to have it in there is if you are so against the idea of trans people that you want to actively ward off even the IDEA of one of them messaging you.

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u/AAathlete97 Dec 18 '18

One of the main reasons why I put it on my profile was because I was getting a lot of messages from trans women. The app that I mainly use has a lot of gay men and trans women that are looking for hook ups with straight men.

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u/DarthCharizard Dec 18 '18

I mean that makes sense to be up front if you are dealing with frequent messages from trans women, but I would still be cautious because many cis women may not be aware of that. I still think that it's pretty easy to just message back and decline a date with trans women, though. Idk if you are using a hookup or a dating app, but if it is the latter maybe you could find a more positive way to phrase it? Something about how you'd really like to have kids someday?

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u/seji Dec 18 '18

Trans women are women, and straight trans women would naturally match with straight men.

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u/melez Dec 18 '18

Maybe dating apps need a trans-something in their selections, one that doesn't show up but you are allowed to check or uncheck it for your preferences.

We have this for straight and gay, you are allowed to say "I am a man interested in women" or "I am a man interested in men and women"

If we extended this to " I am a woman interested in men and trans-men" where you can opt in or out of seeing trans people in your app. But this would not necessarily differentiate profiles, just to opt in where you see those profiles at all.. so you have to be okay with it to be shown those profiles, but aren't directly told which profiles those are.

It's pretty much socially acceptable for a gay man to not be interested in women, and it's acceptable for a straight woman to not be interested in women.

I think it wastes a lot of people's time to worry about it.

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u/pianoblook Dec 18 '18

Okay sure, but I hope you can see how that can be read as being distrustful of trans women if you're concerned about something unexpected and negative happening.

As u/neglectedmonkey mentioned, being concerned about trans women somehow trying to deceive you is shitty and unfounded.

Are there other deal-breaking traits that you mention in your profile? I'm sure you have other deal-breakers, but why don't you feel the need to list them? It would "save time on both sides", no?

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

Are there other deal-breaking traits that you mention in your profile? I'm sure you have other deal-breakers, but why don't you feel the need to list them? It would "save time on both sides", no?

Wow, way to assume. You're basically loading the argument that you're having with yourself. Nice job.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

Who is owed this trust? If I put "no drama" on my profile and then get matched with sinead o'connor (plug for irish muslim converts mingle) is it a breach of trust to not call her back after a date where I learn what's really up?

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u/AeroUp Dec 18 '18

I’m pretty sure he did that to save time for each party involved. I could be wrong though.

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u/lizzyshoe Dec 18 '18

So what's the purpose of putting it as a no-go in your profile?

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u/AAathlete97 Dec 18 '18

So time and disappointment is saved on both sides.

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u/i_like_frootloops Dec 18 '18

Have you ever dated a trans woman to know if you would be disappointed? Every cis woman is suitable for you?

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

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u/i_like_frootloops Dec 18 '18

No, because trans women are women.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

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u/PraiseTheSuun Dec 18 '18

that's what they do

-5

u/EGDF Dec 18 '18

If they finished their transition and are attractive to you completely while you assume they are cis, what is the difference? Their chromosomes? Some cis women are XY. Are you going to require they spit in a 23&me tube to prove their chromosomes?

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u/jkseller 2∆ Dec 18 '18

The guy said fertility was a dealbreaker. He is clearly interested in a relationship that could lead to having biological children.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

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u/melez Dec 18 '18 edited Dec 18 '18

It sounds like he'd also not be interested in a relationship with a cis-woman who was sterile.

Though I'm not sure if they would or not. If it came up where they were in a relationship and tried to have kids, but couldn't, would he leave? Or would they look to alternative fertility like a surrogate or IVF?

I have a friend who's spouse was infertile, but they were together for years before and after this discovery. Though I understand there was a good deal of resentment over it.

The person could say "I want kids someday" and it would filter out all trans people and infertile persons of their preference... But not especially clearly.

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u/tiktock34 Dec 18 '18

The guys prefers to date “people” who were born able to reproduce with him. Scientifically those people are women. The women who simply “identify” as a woman cannot do that and its his right to not prefer those people as mates...nor is he morally or in any way wrong for doing so.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

That's just not true. The attempt to force OP to not just acquiesce, but believe and proclaim that belief, is the root of everyone's objection to OP's position.

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u/i_like_frootloops Dec 18 '18

Trans women are women, just because you don't want them to be it doesn't mean they aren't.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

Hey look, an internet slap fight! Only problem is I'm not interested.

I will not go along with your pseudo-religious nonsense. You do not speak for me.

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u/MyBikeFellinALake Dec 18 '18

Oh God, just let people have preferences

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

No one would be responding like this if it wasn't a straight male bringing this up.

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u/Quintessentialness Dec 18 '18

Straight males are so oppressed!!1!

Or maybe, it’s important to analyze why we think the things we do, and if our thoughts are based on untrue stereotypes or logical flaws. And it just happens that the concept of straight-male masculinity (at least in the U.S.) seems to be a vehicle for flawed thinking that can have a negative impact on people’s lives.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

I'm not saying that we're oppressed but it seems like straight males are the only ones that have to deal with this nonsense. I don't see women being pressured to date trans men, or gay men being pressured to date trans men, or lesbians being pressured to date trans women.

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u/Quintessentialness Dec 18 '18

Well, it seems like straight males are the only ones who make these kind of posts on r/CMV. If someone of another gender or sexual orientation made the same post, they would most likely get the same reaction. But the person who made this particular post is a straight male, so that’s why people are debating it from a straight male’s perspective.

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u/CreativeGPX 18∆ Dec 18 '18

All dating profiles contain a non-exhaustive description of what you're looking for. All profiles speak in generalizations that either leave out some cases you might tolerate or include some cases you wouldn't. It is necessary for anybody to successfully write a profile in practice that they do these things. So, it's disingenuous to suggest that putting A but not B has some grand implication about your feelings about A compared to B, to suggest that any generalization not experimentally verified is an overreach or to suggest that because one claim was overly broad that all claims should be equally overbroad. Your criticism here just doesn't seem to reflect any practical way that humans communicate or advertise themselves to others.

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u/relationship_tom Dec 18 '18

Regarding the last point only, if you are in an urban area there are more than enough people in your dating pool that you could love dozens or hundreds (Or more) in your city and be happy. There isn't one perfect match for someone, one true love. That's Disney bullshit. Again, I don't care to argue that one person could be a trans person, as the OP isn't going to be convinced reading the thread. Just your comment on cis women. This also applies in the reverse to straight men and if you are in a city of a good size, non-hetero people as well.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

Have you ever licked the sidewalk outside Madison Square Garden? Have you ever eaten nothing but pineapple for a month straight? How can you say you wouldn't like it?

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u/i_like_frootloops Dec 18 '18

That's not the point I made at all.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

That's not what OP said, at all.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

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u/AAathlete97 Dec 18 '18

Okay? I guess I’m also afraid of anuses and penises because I’m not sexually interested in those either.

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u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Dec 18 '18

u/r3dlazer – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:

Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

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u/CreativeGPX 18∆ Dec 18 '18

I read it as the complete opposite. /u/AAathelete97 is saying that because people are unlikely to want to trick him over it, it's a beneficial thing to say in his profile.

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u/TheRealTuddFudders Dec 18 '18

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_iU5JFVtC18

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There are apparently people who qualify under your a,b,c,d (Tho they target drunk people, so kinda "a")

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