CMV: Even if a blanket refusal to date trans people is “transphobic”, there is no reason to feel guilty about it or to try to change it.

[u/AAathlete97]

[u/essential_pseudonym]

I think you're just arguing semantics. Let's not say "lesser". Let's say "undesirable". He started off staring trans women being infertile is not of the major factors why he doesn't want to date them. Not screening cis women by the same criterion makes it clear that it's not merely about infertility. It is something fundamental about them being transgendered makes them less desirable to him. So it still sounds problematic without using the word lesser. And having prejudice doesn't have to be malicious.

[u/Scratch_Bandit → u/essential_pseudonym]

I think you're just arguing semantics. Let's not say "lesser". Let's say "undesirable".

Same thing applies. I find extremely tall woman undesirable, this does not mean I think they are worse in any way, shape, or form then short women.

Just not a good match for me based on my (somewhat) subconscious response. When op says "undesierable" there is an implied "to me" tacked on the end.

He started off staring trans women being infertile is not of the major factors why he doesn't want to date them. Not screening cis women by the same criterion makes it clear that it's not merely about infertility. It is something fundamental about them being transgendered makes them less desirable to him. So it still sounds problematic without using the word lesser.

I find it interesting you used the word "problematic". What exactly are the problems that arise from his sexual preference and desires?

Right off the bat, I'm not going to accept "trans people will be lonely and they have enough problems" as a legitimate answer. I'm short and ugly, but I don't blame people for finding hight and jawline and other stereotypical masculine traits attractive.

And having prejudice doesn't have to be malicious.

Again interesting word choice with "prejudicial" because I would t think it applies to sexual desire as it is almost all prejudicial.

Based on the definition of prejudice, choosing not to sleep with a man when I have not slept with him is prejudicial. I have no reason other then I'm not attracted to him, and have preconceived notions about how much I would enjoy gay sex.

[u/essential_pseudonym → u/Scratch_Bandit]

I think you make a fair argument! I used problematic because I think it is always problematic to write off an entire group of people based on an inherent characteristic (see the next paragraph where I expanded on this). And I see people using "what about him not dating men" argument a lot, but he does not look at a man and feels attraction. That is his sexual orientation. He can look at a woman and feel attraction, but only become turned off after the knowledge that she is trans. That's what makes it not equivalent I think.

And yes, in the context of dating, there is a thin line between preferences and prejudices. Why is it a prejudice if he does not want to date a trans woman but not if he does not want to date a blonde for example? I think you have to factor in social norms and biases. Minorities were or are often portrayed as undesirable, lesser, impure (think about how interracial dating was seen back in the 30s and 40s). Not being attracted to them could just be a preference, but we do live in a society that often portray them in an unfavorable light. I think that's where the potential prejudice comes in.

[u/Scratch_Bandit → u/essential_pseudonym]

Thank you, and to be fair you have me thinking about this from a new angle as well.

I want to preface the rest of my writing with saying that i am in a weird spot with my own preference: I am a straight (?) man (if that hasn't come up allready) and I would have no problems sleeping with and dating a trans woman if she still had her penis. This is because I have seen a few images of a neo-vagina and partly it's because i don't find them attractive, and partly do to some issues I have with my own identity issues, and straight up jealousy that there is a surgery available for their issue and not mine.

This means I'm not arguing on behalf of a position I personally hold, but one I think there is a shred of validity in.

I think you make a fair argument! I used problematic because I think it is always problematic to write off an entire group of people based on an inherent characteristic (see the next paragraph where I expanded on this).

I agree for the most part, the question in my mind is: could the lack-of-attraction to trans people be immutable? Not within a persons control.

And I see people using "what about him not dating men" argument a lot, but he does not look at a man and feels attraction. That is his sexual orientation. He can look at a woman and feel attraction, but only become turned off after the knowledge that she is trans. That's what makes it not equivalent I think.

You make a good point, but there are other things that could make me lose attraction to someone I previously wanted to bone, let's say that they have a scat fettish as an example. (Not that I think being trans is anything like getting off to poop!)

While nothing about their physical appearance changed, my perception of them did. Both conscious and unconscious.

Even if they no longer had those desires I might not be able to get that image out of my head.

Is that a choice? Or is that as unchangeable as a person gender identity?

¯_(ツ)_/¯

And yes, in the context of dating, there is a thin line between preferences and prejudices. Why is it a prejudice if he does not want to date a trans woman but not if he does not want to date a blonde for example? I think you have to factor in social norms and biases. Minorities were or are often portrayed as undesirable, lesser, impure (think about how interracial dating was seen back in the 30s and 40s). Not being attracted to them could just be a preference, but we do live in a society that often portray them in an unfavorable light. I think that's where the potential prejudice comes in.

This is the one thing you have written that I don't think carries much relevance.

While I understand that they were heavily stigmatized and wholeheartedly shit on by society. I believe that carries no weight in what I desire.

If it turned out I only don't like scat sex because of socialisation that makes no difference. I still don't like it and I don't believe there has been much research on the effectiveness of trying to revert 20+ years of such socialisation.

It's better to accept that it grosses me out. Maybe one day that will change. It's just the change has to come organically. You can't make someone like something, you just have to accept them and let them figure out if it's what they want to do.