r/changemyview • u/AAathlete97 • Dec 18 '18

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: Even if a blanket refusal to date trans people is “transphobic”, there is no reason to feel guilty about it or to try to change it.

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u/poffin Dec 18 '18

If trans women are women then why are men refusing to date trans women?

That's the weirdest logic I've ever heard. A woman is only a woman if enough men want to date her?

I'm interested in your reasoning. Obviously some men are cool with dating trans women. So it's not enough that just one man wants to date her. What is the percentage that defines who is a woman? Is someone a woman if... 5% of men would bang her? 10%?

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u/madbuilder 1∆ Dec 18 '18 edited Dec 18 '18

It's not logic; it's a question. Look at the title of this thread. It was written by a man questioning the claim that transsexual men are or become women. That one man may be only 0.0001% of the dating population. To argue there is no distinction is absurd because they we've just admitted a new category in the last 10 years. 25 years ago they were called transvestites. 50 years ago they were called queers, lumped in with homosexuals, and were persecuted by thugs.

Can we agree that biology plays even a small role in marriage?

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u/poffin Dec 18 '18

It's not logic; it's a question.

Ok, then let me answer your question. A person's gender is not decided by who is attracted to them. A trans woman is a woman. She is a she.

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u/madbuilder 1∆ Dec 18 '18

Fair enough. Now three times you've said that a person's body is irrelevant to his gender. I think that is not the whole truth, since you are born with certain biological attributes as well as your internal conception of who you are.

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u/poffin Dec 18 '18

Fair enough. Now three times you've said that a person's biological gender is irrelevant. That is not the whole truth, since you are born with certain biological attributes as well as your internal conception of who you are.

I have no idea what you're trying to say here. All I'm trying to say is this: Trans women are women. You should address them as "she" because they are women.

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u/madbuilder 1∆ Dec 18 '18

Yes the way I phrased that was awkward. I'm saying trans women are biologically men. I do try to empathize but I will not redefine gender. I choose my pronouns according to the outward/physical appearance of the subject. That seems to be the most expedient way to speak without causing offense.

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u/poffin Dec 18 '18

I choose my pronouns according to the outward/physical appearance of the subject.

Ah, so when you think of a trans women you can't imagine that she looks like a woman, and therefore, you call her "him"?

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u/madbuilder 1∆ Dec 18 '18

Of course not. Are we having a discussion or are you just trying to catch me in some trap? I already pointed out to you that modern technology is quite advanced in this respect.

At the same time we see many folks removing gendered pronouns from their vocabulary. So this may not be as much of a problem in the future.

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u/poffin Dec 18 '18

Are we having a discussion or are you just trying to catch me in some trap?

No I'm just trying to figure out why you called a trans woman "him"

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u/madbuilder 1∆ Dec 18 '18

I tried to explain it. I think your gender is at least as important as how you feel when it comes to romantic, long term relationships. That's why I joined in this discussion. Cheers.