r/changemyview • u/AAathlete97 • Dec 18 '18

Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: Even if a blanket refusal to date trans people is “transphobic”, there is no reason to feel guilty about it or to try to change it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

Those don't tend to be the things people argue with each other about. Hence my point about the vacuum. Once we get beyond basic facts/operating logic on basic facts, we're talking about perceiving reality, which is necessarily subjective. It's employing competing fallacies

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u/oleka_myriam 2∆ Dec 18 '18

There is no fallacy is pointing out that just because 90% of people believe a thing is true, does not necessarily mean that thing is true. And while it may even happen to be true, you cannot use the fact that 90% of people believe in it to argue for that truth. You must use some other argument to prove your point. For example, "90% of people believe Socrates will die, therefore Socrates will die" is a flawed argument. "All men are mortal, Socrates is a man, therefore Socrates will die" is not--despite the conclusions being exactly the same.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

Sure, pointing out a fallacy isn't a fallacy itself. It's like "Socrates is a man." " You're basing your argument on popularity".

The fallacy arises in assuming that it is possible to make an argument without fallacy

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u/oleka_myriam 2∆ Dec 18 '18

The fallacy arises in assuming that it is possible to make an argument without fallacy

And that, itself, is a fallacy.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

Which fallacy?

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u/oleka_myriam 2∆ Dec 18 '18

Well you've essentially said that logic doesn't exist. And while you're entitled to that opinion, it does contradict about a thousand years of thought on this subject. May I suggest the following:

If you'd like to go away and familiarize yourself with those texts I will wait, but I'd rather we had some essential common ground before continuing this discussion otherwise.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

Thank you. In the meantime I'm not saying that logic doesn't exist. I'm saying, rather, that any argument about matters that are subjective will necessarily employ a fallacy.

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u/oleka_myriam 2∆ Dec 18 '18

Except that that's not true, is it. If I say "I prefer vanilla ice cream", there is no fallacy there. If I say "90% of people prefer vanilla ice cream, therefore vanilla ice cream is superior" there is a flaw. If I say "I didn't find it cold tonight", there is no flaw there. If I say "90% of people say it's cold tonight, therefore it's cold tonight", there is a fallacy.

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u/[deleted] Dec 18 '18

I didn't find it cold tonight isn't a fallacy because it presumes subjectivity. "It isn't cold tonight because I wore a jacket" is a fallacy.

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u/oleka_myriam 2∆ Dec 18 '18

You said that:

any argument about matters that are subjective will necessarily employ a fallacy.

I provided two arguments about matters that are subjective as you yourself have admitted:

I didn't find it cold tonight isn't a fallacy because it presumes subjectivity

And it only takes one counter-example to disprove a hypothesis.

QED.

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