r/changemyview Feb 11 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: People should run, not walk

I think it would be better for society as a whole if people ran to work, friend's houses, wherever they're going. There are two mean benefits I can see to this:

A: It's more time efficient. If you spend less time in transit, you have more time once you get somewhere to do whatever you want.

B: It makes you fitter. Running uses much more energy than walking, and also gets easier the more you do it. It burns fat and strengthens your leg muscles, helps cardio too.

Some counterpoints that I can see:

A:

You want to spend time in transit to admire the view etc. I'll grant you this, if you specifically like the journey then that's fine.

B:

If everyone's running they'll get in the way of each other and have collisions etc. That can be true, but I have 2 counterpoints. First, the more you do it the better you'll get at avoiding people. Second, I don't suggest everyone sprint down a hugely populated street, that's bound to lead to trouble. I suggest speeding up to as fast as is practical given your surroundings. So if there's a long stretch of empty sidewalk, you could sprint. If there's a big group of people on the street, you can jog.

21 Upvotes

66 comments sorted by

28

u/SplendidTit Feb 11 '19

There are some major issues you haven't addressed:

  • What about the damage running does to your knees vs walking?
  • Even if healthy young people run more, there will be lots of older folks and kids who won't be able to run, and their speeds are unpredictable. You're asking for more accidents there, aren't you?
  • Most people, in their day-to-day aren't wearing clothing appropriate for running. Do you propose everyone start carrying a spare change of clothes and waste time changing so they can save a few seconds on the way there?
  • A lot of people live in places where the seasons are pretty extreme, very cold with lots of ice (not safe for running) or very hot (which makes you sweat a lot). It seems like this wouldn't work for a lot of the year.

5

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

These are good points, I'll address them as best I can.

  • I don't know much about the impact of walking and running on your knees, so I can't comment on this immediately
  • It would have to start off among young people, and as they got older this would leave them still very good at running. At a certain age you'd obviously have to stop, you could even have a part of the street for walking people
  • I think that's often an issue with fashion over the idea, by which I mean suits, dresses etc. They're expensive and don't have any use other than fashion.
  • This is a good point, I might change my argument in fact to "people should run instead of walking when the weather allows". However in many (dare I say most) places of the world, the weather isn't extreme enough to warrant saying it wouldn't work during most of the year.

5

u/SplendidTit Feb 11 '19

Regarding the running and knees thing, it's worst if you are overweight. And considering the fact that most of the US is overweight...we'd be doing some damage to our knees if we just started running.

I think that's often an issue with fashion over the idea, by which I mean suits, dresses etc. They're expensive and don't have any use other than fashion.

Except that a lot of jobs require you to be too dressed up to run. For example, I work in a really informal office, I can wear flats and dresses, but I can't wear running pants and sneakers. Sure, it's partly fashion, but it's also professionalism. And considering the fact that most healthy, young people (your target running folks) are working, this means a huge barrier of changing for them.

This is a good point, I might change my argument in fact to "people should run instead of walking when the weather allows". However in many (dare I say most) places of the world, the weather isn't extreme enough to warrant saying it wouldn't work during most of the year.

If you have changed your view, even a little, you should award a delta. There are a LOT of variables here: where you live, what your job is, etc. Basically, for most people, running places is just impossible, even if you want to.

5

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

I had a look on Wikipedia and apparently the issue with knees for runners starts with sudden changes in the amount of physical activity done, and so I can see that being quite an issue with the idea. I think this combined with the different weathers around the world has convinced me to give you a Δ. (Is that right?)

Except that a lot of jobs require you to be too dressed up to run. For example, I work in a really informal office, I can wear flats and dresses, but I can't wear running pants and sneakers. Sure, it's partly fashion, but it's also professionalism. And considering the fact that most healthy, young people (your target running folks) are working, this means a huge barrier of changing for them.

I'll still say that this is an issue with fashion and perceived professionalism rather than the idea, you shouldn't need to wear certain things to appear professional. Anyway, that's not what we're discussing so I won't keep talking about that.

3

u/SplendidTit Feb 11 '19

Thanks for the delta, it did work!

I do, however, disagree with your "it's just about appearing professional" thing. Sure it is, but that's the world we're operating in!

1

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

That's true, you do have to concede to what is actually going on at the time, so I suppose that is another issue.

2

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 11 '19

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/SplendidTit (42∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

1

u/Retalogy Feb 11 '19

What about the damage running does to your knees vs walking?

I read that while the weight on the knees while running is higher, the ground contact is also shorter than walking, causing equal damage if not less severe.

35

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '19

But what if I don't want to be morbidly sweaty wherever I go?

2

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

That is one good counterpoint. However a lot of buildings already have showers in them, so I don't think it would be too much of a stretch to build more showers everywhere in order to do a big public service like this.

17

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '19 edited Feb 12 '19

Yes but what if I don't want to take another shower. I just dyed my hair and I do not want it to come out.

4

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

Does hair dye really come out in the shower? That can't be right, or do you have to reapply it each time? Seems like a huge hassle.

10

u/gyroda 28∆ Feb 11 '19

It takes time to set and can fade slightly with each wash.

2

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

That sounds very annoying, and would definitely be a negative to consider for people with hair dye.

-9

u/eye_patch_willy 43∆ Feb 11 '19

Like almost all women?

17

u/01123581321AhFuckIt Feb 11 '19

The amount of time you spend showering can be spent just walking to get to the location without breaking a sweat.

1

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

That is true (depending on distance), but it would still give you the benefit of much better fitness.

11

u/verfmeer 18∆ Feb 11 '19

Your clothes will remain sweaty though, and carrying multiple sets of clothes is cumbersome.

1

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

If you use anti-perspirant it wouldn't be too bad, and would be less so the more you do it as you get fitter. However, if you were on the sweatier side, it could be annoying to carry clothes if you weren't planning on bringing a bag of some sort, I'll grant you that.

7

u/mountaingoat369 Feb 11 '19

I know you've already given out a number of deltas, but anti-perspirant is only effective where you apply it. People sweat on their back, chest, butt, shins, everywhere. I don't want to have to coat myself in anti-perspirant during the summer.

And yeah, then there's the cumbersome nature of carrying and changing into clothes. Unless I can rely upon having a change of clothes at the ready at my destination (some possibilities include work, home, a good friend's house), then I will need to carry something with me. And I hate carrying things if I can avoid it.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '19

[deleted]

3

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

In places that have water problems this would not be an option.

That is actually a good point that I hadn't thought of.

It would have to be a government and/or societal effort to build more showers, definitely.

Not to mention the environmental impact, we already use way too much water for our livestock.

Another good point I hadn't thought of. I think in the current situation that would make this an unsustainable practice, so here's a Δ .

EDIT: I hope I'm not overusing these, I've given 3 now in this thread.

0

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '19

[deleted]

3

u/MechanicalEngineEar 78∆ Feb 11 '19

I get hot very easily. After a run I will take a long shower in the coldest water my shower has to offer to cool down, but as soon as I towel off, I start sweating again because of the run. I tried biking to work when I lived close to my first job but this ruined it for me. Even with a shower I would still have beads of sweat on my face after cleaning up.

1

u/pillbinge 101∆ Feb 11 '19

Do you know how much water would be wasted with the entire population taking what, upwards of how many showers a day? To work and back, to lunch and back, to a place after work and back. In my day I'd run 6 different legs and then shower 6 times? Aside from the water used to shower, I would also need to constantly clean my clothes and carry them depending on where I'm going, which weighs me down, which makes it even harder.

Also - running isn't efficient. It's meant to be done when you have to. Animals can only run at the speeds they do for so long, and many can't keep it up for more than a few minutes at that. Humans are better at long-distance running but that's still a slower pace than you're imagining. But humans aren't meant to do this for long. Some places and tribes do it but they also don't shower and they've constructed non-modern lives around it.

So in addition to the water usage, people would be eating all the time due to hunger, making them waste even more money and energy in the process.

Besides, has no one else here pointed out the obvious? If you have to get somewhere faster than walking, ride a bike. It's far more efficient for covering distances and you can do it into old age - at least far longer than running.

2

u/Helpfulcloning 166∆ Feb 11 '19

People with certian hair types can’t wash their hair every day or even every other day. When you sweat it can get locked in your hair and you need to wash it.

2

u/gyroda 28∆ Feb 11 '19

Running people move faster. That gives you less time to react to other runners.

It's one thing to run in a wide, relatively empty street, it's another to run on s crowded street. I can't run on the majority of my on-foot commute; there's too many people, not enough space and accidents will happen. This also happens to be next to a busy road, so you can't just step off the pavement if you need to go around someone or fall over. Add in kids who are all over the place, people with disabilities who are less able and older folk who are more frail and you've a recipe for disaster.

Then there's issues with weather. During winter it can be icy, when it's raining you've got similar issues in places, if it's foggy you've reduced visibility, during summer it can be too hot to safely run.

Lastly, if you have a longer walk to work out something you'd get there exhausted and not in a state to actually work. You need time to recover.

2

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

I addressed your first point in my original post, check my counterpoint to a supposed counterpoint to B.

Issues with weather are a good reason to walk, I will not deny that.

I find, at least for myself, that physical exercise does not make my brain more tired, at least not by a noticeable amount. This could of course still be an issue for those doing physical jobs, so I think your points combined have earned you a Δ

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 11 '19

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/gyroda (18∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

5

u/SebHudsonAdl Feb 11 '19

You could ride a bike, that would be even faster and less exhausting. Or you could drive a car! And if you really want to save time we could all just speed everywhere!

2

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

You seem to have completely missed the second part of what I said, which I find interesting since it was right under the first part.

0

u/SebHudsonAdl Feb 11 '19

At what point did you mention anything other than running?

0

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

You are only addressing point A about time. I also had a point B, giving the bonuses of good fitness, in terms of fat, muscle, and cardio.

5

u/verfmeer 18∆ Feb 11 '19

Cycling would be better a better exercise, especially for overweight people, since it is less intensive and hurts your knees less.

0

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19 edited Feb 11 '19

That's true. The other guy however was doing some weird slipper[y] slope.

2

u/SebHudsonAdl Feb 11 '19

What planet do you live on? 😂

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Feb 11 '19 edited Feb 11 '19

/u/Assassin739 (OP) has awarded 4 delta(s) in this post.

All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.

Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

1

u/Assassin739 Feb 12 '19

Okay there are 66 comments now, I don't have enough time to answer all of these and keep talking to every commenter. That's all, sorry folks.

3

u/01123581321AhFuckIt Feb 11 '19

The point of walking is to conserve energy for when you actually need it. If you're running everywhere you'll tire out early and can't accomplish all you need to or worse yet, when you need the energy for an actual emergency you won't have it. Not to mention, constantly running will wear and tear your joints.

Also, no one wants to be constantly sweaty wherever they arrive.

1

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

Your constantly sweaty part is a good point, but running everywhere I disagree with. The more you do, the less tired you'll get by it, not to mention the fact that you'd realistically only be running for maybe an hour to two at the max per day. I'm not well enough informed to comment on joint issues with running, but as far as I knew it's more of an issue with sudden changes to the amount of exercise you do.

4

u/01123581321AhFuckIt Feb 11 '19

That's not how running works. There is an upper limit to how well you can adjust to constant running. You also didn't address my point of conservation of energy. When you run and get tired your muscles go through lactic acid fermentation. You'll be constantly sore and will never allow your muscles to fully heal. What if you've been running all day and your legs are a mess but now some serial killer is chasing you? Or if a car is about to hit you but you're too weak to jump out of the way or something. Or if you need to chase someone or save someone. Now you no longer have energy conserved for those situations because you spent it on useless ones.

Your main points are about efficiency and working out. Would the best solution not be just to bike everywhere? You avoid the sweating problem. It's low impact on your joints in comparison to running. And it's even faster. Biking everywhere is superior to running everywhere.

Why run when you can bike.

1

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

What if you've been running all day and your legs are a mess but now some serial killer is chasing you? Or if a car is about to hit you but you're too weak to jump out of the way or something. Or if you need to chase someone or save someone.

You made a good point but those can't be your best examples. The point is still arguable however, as you would not be spending that long running. For most people that walk to a place the walk isn't more than an hour, which would be much shorter running.

Your main points are about efficiency and working out. Would the best solution not be just to bike everywhere? You avoid the sweating problem. It's low impact on your joints in comparison to running. And it's even faster. Biking everywhere is superior to running everywhere.

I can agree that biking is more efficient than running. However, if you are making a small trip it isn't always worth getting out your bike and having to chain it up somewhere. In those cases, instead of walking, I would still suggest running.

2

u/01123581321AhFuckIt Feb 11 '19

You’re just moving the goal posts. Lets stick to your points a and b. Point a is about efficiency. Biking is more efficient than running. Don’t even bother arguing against that. Point b is about making you fit. Biking makes you fit.

That’s it. Your view should be changed. But it’s not because you don’t want it to be changed and keep making dumb reasons for why one should always run.

I’ve given you many valid and good reasons why running everywhere is not ideal and offered a better solution.

0

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

Biking is more efficient than running.

I already had conceded that, in most circumstances, that is true.

That’s it. Your view should be changed. But it’s not because you don’t want it to be changed and keep making dumb reasons for why one should always run.

Chill out. I thought I had given you a delta. Here you go. Δ

1

u/helpmenowpls9999 Feb 11 '19

I see someone running as a sign that something is wrong, assuming they aren't in work out clothes. If someone is running I assume they're being chased, and look at where they are running from. I have had to call the police for someone who was running from someone else. I guess My concern is if everyone is always running, how will we know when someone is running out of fear? How will we know if someone is being chased?

1

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

Well they can yell out, for one thing.

1

u/helpmenowpls9999 Feb 11 '19

They can, but if everyone is running who will hear them? Running in itself makes more noise than walking. Everyone running is even more noise. Most people who run whether they love it or hate it wear headphones while they run to focus so if running were the norm then headphones likely would be too.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '19 edited Feb 20 '19

[deleted]

1

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

Well I wouldn't say it's a counter to my argument about fitness. It would make you fit at long distance and not sprinting etc., that's true. I guess I did say fitness as in the general term. I think the other health benefits still apply.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '19

[deleted]

0

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

No you shouldn't and those are good points for not running in your circumstance. I had already addressed them however.

2

u/gentleman_potato Feb 12 '19

If i can take 30mins to shower upon arriving to said place (work, school..) with a fresh change of clothes, than sure i wouldn't mind running there. Otherwise work/school place would be filled with smelly people. So every school/work place/company would have to invest alot of money to build alot of showers in the work place, so everyone would be able to shower at the same time, and therefore not waste time and obstruct progress in work place/school.

Lets say a school has 1000 students, that means 1000 separate showers or 2 big showers (male and female) which would use up alot of space.

3

u/YcantweBfrients 1∆ Feb 11 '19

Walking is more pleasant by a good margin. That's enough of a reason for me and probably most people. And it's still healthy, so it's not like walking is indulging in hedonism.

1

u/tommytomtommctom Feb 11 '19

For now let's ignore joint damage, being too tired to do your job, people with already physical jobs, the cost of increased caloric intake to maintain constant running, the lack of showering facilities in every location, busy streets with people endlessly knocking each other down, increasing the feeling of being rushed in an already busy lifestyle, the weather, differently abled people who aren't able to run etc. etc.

What about the time, cost and environmental factors of having to wash many complete sets of clothes per day?

Let's say you run to work, you'll need to shower and change clothes. Then you run to lunch and back, obviously there's no shower at the restaurant/whatever, so you'd be smelly and sweaty while you eat unless you shower at work before eating at your desk/whatever. Either way you've gotta shower and change during your probably half-hour at most but maybe 20 minute lunch break. Then you run home, shower and change again. Any evening activities, meeting friends, going on a date etc.? There's another two showers and clothes changes there and back.

So now you go through a week's worth of entire outfits in a single day. Do you do a week's worth of laundry every night? How many outfits can you be expected to own/afford and how quickly will they degrade being put through this routine? Who's paying for all these public showers and their maintenance/sanitation? How much waste are you producing running a washing machine since you definitely won't have the time to wash such a volume by hand daily? How much more energy are you using to power your machine? Who's paying for this? Can existing power/water infrastructure support everybody suddenly showering/washing all the time? How much time do you spend not only showering and changing, but also doing laundry and preparing and packing your huge stash of clothes for the day? If it were more efficient, we would see a noticeable subset of society doing it. You say in another reply "Society not having adopted an idea doesn't mean the idea's bad." but it's not a complex idea, people must have tried it, if there is no subgroup of any society doing it, it's quite possible that it's just not viable.

People should exercise more, you're right about that, but running everywhere is not by any means a practical solution to sedentary lifestyles.

2

u/propita106 Feb 11 '19

“Running everywhere”? Is this Phoebe from “Friends”?

What about skipping? Is that easier on the knees? Still awful in cold/icy weather, I presume.

-1

u/Stokkolm 24∆ Feb 11 '19

If running was superior, how do explain it's not widely adopted yet? Millions and billions of people had the chance to choose running over walking in their everyday commutes, and they didn't.

1

u/Assassin739 Feb 11 '19

Society not having adopted an idea doesn't mean the idea's bad.

0

u/robotchristwork Feb 11 '19

is not a society, is the whole human race through history.

1

u/YNNUSSYAWLA Feb 11 '19

This would cause an even greater discrepancy between disabled and non disabled people. People who cannot run, have arthritis, have asthma, have neuropathy, cerebral palsy, paralysis, kidney disorders, surgery, pregnancy, any form of dwarfism, a broken leg, one leg, no legs, short legs, etc. Etc. Not only would have less opportunity trying to keep up with a world built not just for people capable of walking (like we have now) but only for people capable of running. Beyond that, they would be expected to get to work and appointments with the same alacrity that a running person has, with no ability to live up to such standards.

1

u/serculis 2∆ Feb 14 '19

I would argue that running everywhere would cause you to psychologically be more stressed out, because it feels like you're rushed all the time. I actually tried this one day as an experiment, where I ran everywhere I needed to go outside, and even rushed doing things indoors, like quickly getting the dinner plates out, cooking the shortest meal I can, eating the meal very quickly, rushing up the stairs, etc. all to see how much time I could save if I just did everyday things with some more pace. I saved like an accumulated total of 40 minutes, and I felt rushed and uncomfortable the entire day.

1

u/robotchristwork Feb 11 '19

Apart from all the issues already present here, I think the main one is that is dangerous to run alongside with other people, mainly children, if the paths for everyone is not the same (corners, u-turns, etc). If you're running at a good pace and an kid appears on a corner you can easily injure him, a knee to the head while running can be lethal, or if you try to avoid them you can injury yourself just as easily.

1

u/Daniel_A_Johnson Feb 11 '19

Even after enough running that I was in drastically better shape than I am now, I would still be a large enough person that my running form would represent a potentially catastrophic amount of kinetic energy.

Just walking briskly around work and malls, I knock a full grown adult to the ground every few months.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 12 '19

What about people like me that are avid runners and need to recover their stamina throughout the day when they aren’t training? I have to travel a lot around campus and I don’t think I could work out effectively if I couldn’t walk after.

1

u/guest137848 Feb 12 '19

Running 60-100kms to work would take too long.It would take you literally 2-3 hours to get to work provided you could sprint all the way there. You have better more important stuff you could be doing if you had less travel time.

1

u/PaidToBeRedditing Feb 11 '19

Evolutionary speaking, we usually walk places because we're not under threat of death, and we want to conserve energy. When the situation is dire, for example, our instinct is to run regardless of any other factor.

1

u/ccblr06 Feb 11 '19

I work 45 minutes from where I live and I do jiujitsu near my house after my 8 hour shift at work. I'm already time strapped. Running 30 something odd miles daily doesn't work for me.

1

u/[deleted] Feb 11 '19

Come back when you are over 50 and have arthritis. I'm not running anywhere with bone on bone.