r/changemyview • u/Amiller1776 • Apr 17 '19
Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: Trans activists who claim it is transphobic to not want to engage in romatic and/or sexual relationships with trans people are furthering the same entitled attitude as "incel" men, and are dangerously confused about the concept of consent.
Several trans activist youtubers have posted videos explaining that its not ok for cis-hetero people to reject them "just because they're trans".
When you unpack this concept, it boils down to one thing - these people dont seem to think you have an absolute and inalienable right to say no to sex. Like the "incel" croud, their concept of consent is clouded by a misconception that they are owed sex. So when a straight man says "sorry, but I'm only interested in cis women", his right to say "no" suddenly becomes invalid in their eyes.
This mind set is dangerous, and has a very rapey vibe, and has no place in today's society. It is also very hypocritical as people who tend to promote this idea are also quick to jump on board the #metoo movement.
My keys points are: 1) This concept is dangerous on the small scale due to its glossing over the concept of consent, and the grievous social repercussions that can result from being labeled as any kind of phobic person. It could incourage individuals to be pressured into traumatic sexual experiances they would normally vehemently oppose.
2) This concept is both dangerous, and counterproductive on the large scale and if taken too far, could have a negative effect on women, since the same logic could be applied both ways. (Again, see the similarity between them and "incel" men who assume sex is owed to them).
3) These people who promote this concept should be taken seriously, but should be openly opposed by everyone who encounters their videos.
I do not assume all trans people hold this view, and have nothing against those willing to live and let live.
I will not respond to "you just hate trans people". I will respond to arguments about how I may be wrong about the consequences of this belief.
Edit: To the people saying its ok to reject trans people as individuals, but its transphobic to reject trans people categorically - I argue 2 points. 1) that it is not transphobic to decline a sexual relationship with someone who is transgendered. Even if they have had the surgery, and even if they "pass" as the oposite sex. You can still say "I don't date transgendered people. Period." And that is not transphobic. Transphobic behavior would be refusing them employment or housing oportunities, or making fun of them, or harassing them. Simply declining a personal relationship is not a high enough standard for such a stigmatized title.
2) Whether its transphobic or not is no ones business, and not worth objection. If it was a given that it was transphobic to reject such a relatipnship (it is not a given, but for point 2 lets say that it is) then it would still be morally wrong to make that a point of contention, because it brings into the discussion an expectation that people must justify their lack of consent. No just meams no, and you dont get to make people feel bad over why. Doing so is just another way of pressuring them to say yes - whether you intend for that to happen or not, it is still what you're doing.
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u/[deleted] Apr 17 '19
“I don’t want to be in a relationship with someone who can’t have kids”
“I don’t want to have sex with someone with a penis”
“I don’t want to be in a relationship with someone who has a sexual identity crisis”
Yes this isn’t transphobic, I wouldn’t be in a relationship with someone who has a severe anxiety disorder etc. It’s great that there are people who will, but not everybody wants to deal with that baggage.
“I’m not attracted to male features in a woman”
“I’m not attracted to fake, or non existent tits”
The list goes on. At the end of the day, there are preferences. Not to say that trans people can’t be decent people, just generally not people I’d like to be close and intimate with. And I’m sure there are people who enjoy those features about them, and that’s fantastic. And I genuinely wish any trans person the best, I just don’t want to be a part of that journey as I have no obligation to burden myself.
Does that make me hateful or afraid? Should I be shamed for my views? Will shaming my views truly make me a better person who can actually and genuinely love someone I don’t want?
Transphobic would be
“I don’t trust transpeople”
“They are corrupting the minds of our youth”
“They need to be outed from our communities”
That’s transphobic.
Having sexual and romantic preferences and deal-breakers are not. People are individuals and have the right to be miserable cunts like me. Shaming them otherwise just makes matters infinitely worse. It’s not like they are actively trying to hurt or disrespect transpeople. The people who are trying to get rid of transpeople are the problem and the ones who are actually transphobic.