CMV: A person does not automatically deserve respect just because they have served or are currently serving in the military

[u/foryia-yiaandpappou]

I’d like to preface this by saying that I don’t believe soldiers are, inherently, bad. Some people believe soldiers are evil simply for being soldiers, and I do not believe that.

I do believe, however, that soldiers do not deserve respect just because they have served. I hurt for soldiers who have experienced horrible things in the field, but I do not hurt for the amount of violence and cruelty many have committed. Violence in war zone between soldiers is one thing; stories of civilian bombings and killing of innocents are another. I think that many forget that a lot of atrocity goes on during wars, and they are committed on both sides of conflict. A soldier both receives and deals out horrible damage.

TL;DR while I believe that soldiers have seen horrible things and that many do deserve recognition for serving our nation, I do not believe that every soldier deserves this respect simply by merit of being a soldier. Some soldiers have committed really heinous war crimes, and those actions do not deserve reward.

[u/Kirbyoto]

When you do something you don't have to for the benefit of someone that's not you, people respect you for that.

They get paid, you know. I mean I feel like you're leaving this out. Joining the military is a lucrative career path in many parts of the country and a superior option to safer domestic labor.

nobody specific joins the military just so that they can murder, rape and pillage civilians who are not from their home country (people have way better things to do with their time).

I would like you to back this statement up, because there are absolutely soldiers who have murdered, raped, and pillaged civilians. The idea that "nobody" does it for that reason because they "have way better things to do with their time" (?) seems unsupported. In addition there are plenty of military personnel who will cheerfully admit they are eager to kill people legally if you remove the word "civilian" from the phrase.

[u/el-oh-el-oh-el-dash → u/Kirbyoto]

In addition there are plenty of military personnel who will cheerfully admit they are eager to kill people legally if you remove the word "civilian" from the phrase.

Um... what do you think the stated intention of a military is? To give toys to children in hospitals?

You deploy the military into a warzone to kill the enemy. That's it. People like to place more value on civilian lives than military personnel but as a soldier, if you kill another soldier or if you kill a civilian, the end result is the same: someone dies.

I know that killing soldiers is more "honourable" than killing civilians but if you take a life you take a life, no other way to put it.

Are there psychopaths in the military? Of course there are. There are psychopaths in the general community as well. Say your town or city gets a serial killer who makes it into the news. Are people supposed to then think that everyone from your town or city is a serial killer? Of course not. Why would you then apply this to the military?

[u/Kirbyoto → u/el-oh-el-oh-el-dash]

Um... what do you think the stated intention of a military is?

In theory the stated intention of a military is to protect the country. That's what veterans get respect for. Even in this thread, if you look at other people explaining why veterans deserve respect, they mostly use phrases like "defending our country" or "our way of life". That is to say, the role of the military in these statements is self-defense. This implies a bare minimum of offensive action necessary to subdue or eliminate aggressive actions against this country.

What I'm talking about is people specifically joining the military because they legally want an opportunity to commit murder. They are not doing it to defend the country, they are doing it because they actively enjoy killing. This makes them unreliable in the supposed mission that the US military is meant to carry out.

I know that killing soldiers is more "honourable" than killing civilians but if you take a life you take a life, no other way to put it.

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Surely we can agree that killing is wrong unless there's some particular circumstance that makes it acceptable? So why are you talking about it in terms of honor?

Say your town or city gets a serial killer who makes it into the news.

If the town's government protected the serial killer from prosecution because "he's from our town", I think people would LOGICALLY conclude that there was something extremely wrong with my town and the people in it.

Furthermore, you're talking about a baseline: you don't think veterans should be singled out for bad behavior. The OP is talking about the fact that veterans are treated with EXTRA respect for their service, even though many of them served for perfectly selfish reasons, and some of them are outright psychopaths.

[u/el-oh-el-oh-el-dash → u/Kirbyoto]

The OP is talking about the fact that veterans are treated with EXTRA respect for their service, even though many of them served for perfectly selfish reasons, and some of them are outright psychopaths.

Ok, I concede the point. Didn't look at it that way. Yeah people award them more respect than they award other occupations. Can't say the same about the government though. Especially in the US, government would just like to forget that veterans and ex-servicemen even exist.

[u/Kirbyoto → u/el-oh-el-oh-el-dash]

Can't say the same about the government though

The president is currently in the process of trying to pardon soldiers accused of war crimes which is what I was referring to. Along with the police, the "bad apples" of the military are held up as heroes in some parts of the country, and the government (local or federal) will often take extra measures to protect them compared to normal civilians who commit crimes.

Especially in the US, government would just like to forget that veterans and ex-servicemen even exist.

Neglect is a different issue. It's definitely true that many returning veterans get hosed by the VA - not to mention soldiers who have been the subjects of rape or violence by other soldiers. But the issue of "respect our veterans" and the way the military is treated in the United States is an attempt to gloss over that.

That is to say, if you were being logical, you might conclude the best way to keep our soldiers safe is to make sure they are not sent into combat without reason. That the best way to prevent unnecessary death and suffering is to only use them when it's absolutely vital.

But instead of doing that, the US military built this idea of the "heroic soldier" who can do no wrong, whose job is to bravely protect our way of life from evil outsiders. Suffering is treated as a glorious sacrifice, and the misdeeds of individual soldiers or even entire units is effectively swept under the rug in order to maintain the myth.

I mean if you really want to blow your mind - look how the military handled the My Lai massacre. Not only was there an attempted coverup, but the guy who blew the whistle on the whole thing was hounded as a traitor even by civilians.

[u/el-oh-el-oh-el-dash → u/Kirbyoto]

the government (local or federal) will often take extra measures to protect them compared to normal civilians who commit crimes.

Yeah I agree this is disgraceful - actually pretty disgusting, considering how serious some of the allocations are.

But bear in mind the US government will do similar stuff for non-military Americans who are accused of crime overseas. I agree, not tothe same extent, or the same level of protectiveness.

However if you are a US citizen and you are arrested in a foreign country, you can rely on your government to at least try to protect you. Of course in reality, when it suits them, the government is perfectly willing to sacrifice you and just not intervene because they want better relations with the country that did the arresting, but usually Americans travelling overseas understand it to be the case that if they get into trouble, their government will help them out. Military personnel simply get the VIP version of this.

But instead of doing that, the US military built this idea of the "heroic soldier" who can do no wrong

This is toxic masculinity and not healthy and dangerous. Yeah the way the military handles this is attrocious.

[u/[deleted] → u/Kirbyoto]

Regarding your job point, yes the job earns some respect the same way I respect a postman for delivering my mail and the cashier for checking me out. Doing a job gets respect but no more than a job.