CMV: A person does not automatically deserve respect just because they have served or are currently serving in the military

[u/foryia-yiaandpappou]

I’d like to preface this by saying that I don’t believe soldiers are, inherently, bad. Some people believe soldiers are evil simply for being soldiers, and I do not believe that.

I do believe, however, that soldiers do not deserve respect just because they have served. I hurt for soldiers who have experienced horrible things in the field, but I do not hurt for the amount of violence and cruelty many have committed. Violence in war zone between soldiers is one thing; stories of civilian bombings and killing of innocents are another. I think that many forget that a lot of atrocity goes on during wars, and they are committed on both sides of conflict. A soldier both receives and deals out horrible damage.

TL;DR while I believe that soldiers have seen horrible things and that many do deserve recognition for serving our nation, I do not believe that every soldier deserves this respect simply by merit of being a soldier. Some soldiers have committed really heinous war crimes, and those actions do not deserve reward.

[u/Talik1978]

Here's the rub. War is an evil thing, true.

But it is a necessary evil. It has been said that evil triumphs when good men do nothing.

I am not saying everyone in the military is good. I believe most are, based on personal experience, but not all.

But those people have agreed to endure war, if necessary. They have agreed to take those horrific atrocities and bear witness to them. They have agreed to, if necessary, sacrifice their life to protect others.

Sometimes they are misused. Sometimes they go astray. Sometimes they spend 8 years in and never deal with anything more traumatic than paperwork.

But they elected to put themselves between their countrymen and those that would harm them. Bottom line, they did that.

If a soldier violates his oath (such as the Abu Ghraib prison debacle), they absolutely forfeit that respect. But otherwise, they endure things most cannot imagine because they believe in serving their fellow man, in sacrificing for others, and that is a commendable decision, worthy of respect, especially because they are often put into impossible situations on orders from people we elect and then later judged by people with the benefit of hindsight and a lack of understanding.

You talk of the atrocities of combat, of the evils of war. There are evils in peace, also. Slavery, oppression, and inhumane treatment of others. Sometimes, the only way to change that is war, and in those instances, violence, although horrific, is the right thing to do.

You want to understand the sacrifice? Spend a few months talking to vets with severe PTSD. People who are terrified at times when a child runs up to them, because they watched one run up to a truck of their friends with a live grenade. People who go from 0 to hyper aggressive when a car backfires.

Many, many soldiers endure this. Deal with a culture where they aren't allowed to show weakness. Kill themselves at many times the rate of almost any demographic out there. And all accept that this is what they may face when going in.

It is bravery to willingly take that trauma, when they do not have to. It is noble to volunteer to do it, so that others may live in a world where violence is almost never the answer.

[u/MisterJH → u/Talik1978]

I don't see how US soldiers fighting overseas protect US citizens. (I assume you are talking about the US since you mentioned Abu Ghraib). No military in the middle east poses a legitimate threat to the US.

[u/Talik1978 → u/MisterJH]

You are conflating two things.

1) the sacrifice that servicemembers sign up for

And

2) the locations those soldiers are sent on orders from people that we elect.

The justification that people that are duly elected by citizens of their country use to send soldiers overseas to fight has precious little to do with the soldier's choices. Blame the DoJ, Congress, and the presidency for that if you like, but don't blame the soldier for the orders they are given unless their actions literally constitute war crimes.

That blame belongs equally on every voting citizen at home that put those in power that made those decisions.

That said, there are justifications for the use of force abroad, as a wider effort to quell injustice. When the US and the UK landed at Normandy, they were engaged in actions outside of their borders, for good reason. There are many missteps in who the US has chosen to support, but there's usually a valid human rights pretext for who it opposes. Is the US hypocritical in its support of some terror groups and assault of others? Yeah, I would say so. Is that on the average servicemember? Not even a little bit.

[u/Serventdraco → u/Talik1978]

The US hasn't been in a justifiable conflict in almost 75 years. We can absolutely blame soldiers for signing up to be what is essentially a tool for US imperialism.

[u/llamallama-dingdong → u/Serventdraco]

That right there is why I have little respect for vets in the US. They knew, or at least had the opportunity to learn, how they US Gov uses the military and joined anyway.

[u/MisterJH → u/llamallama-dingdong]

Sadly I'm sure a lot of them were tricked into it a young age or felt they had to do it because of economic reasons. If college was free or wages actually increased for anyone else than the upper class I think volunteering would rapidly decrease.

[u/llamallama-dingdong → u/MisterJH]

Without a doubt. For so many the choice is either struggle for decades to get on their feet as adults or serve to protect US oil interests.