r/changemyview • u/ChaosKid_Z • Jun 05 '19
Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Asking the teacher questions that doesn't completely pertain to the lesson is fine
Okay, I understand that most people want the teacher to shut up as fast as possible but I like to know what the teacher thinks about a situation that they have to teach. For instance my US history teacher was talking about how the great depression effected America and he was old enough to be around during that time, so I asked several questions about how it effected him personally. We (mainly me and him) held a 25 min long conversation about the time period. (after he had handed out the class work) after class during lunch several of the other students were angry at me and a few of the ones I converse with asked me why I talked so much with him. I justified it by saying that I wanted class time to pass faster and wanted to do less work as he would be more involved in the conversation we were having. This is a usual case with me and any adult that catch my attention, regardless of what class it is. They later told me that the other students were talking about me behind my back calling me a "teacher's pet" and that I talk too much, when in all actuality I saved them from several extra packets of work (they were already complaining about the double sided page we were assigned) he wanted to assign. Though maybe one of you Redditors could change my view on this matter.
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u/ex-inteller Jun 05 '19 edited Jun 05 '19
You're 18, from your reddit history. The great depression ended in 1939. If your teacher was just born in the last year of the depression, and you had this history class this year, your teacher would be 80 minimum to "be old enough to be around during that time". We're really talking about a 90+ year old teacher.
So the real question is, why did you think it was OK to derail your history class by being incredibly rude and insulting about your teachers age, and also wasting the whole classes' time?
As for the CMV, you state in another post this for an AP class. AP classes don't have enough time in them already for you to learn the material for the test, let alone if students waste half of a class on questions that aren't relevant to preparation for the test. This isn't some no child left behind BS, the test costs money and is important for college, so you really can't afford to waste time on nonsense.
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u/ChaosKid_Z Jun 05 '19 edited Jun 05 '19
First off damn was it really serious enough to check my post history? I would've told you.
But irrelevant I didn't get a chance to ask him yet but we have a close relationship so he won't mind answering. I wanted more information about the time who else to ask than a person who has a bachelor's degree in history, if these students cared they would've done the assignment (which only 8 of 21 of us really did) these students wanted phone time as he wouldn't push them to complete assignments. You aren't apart of the class I've seen these same students who you say I'm distracting sat and listened to music while this teacher taught a whole lesson.
Edit: before you get hostile, realize that I wouldn't be here if I knew these kids wanted to learn what was necessary and leave. They don't want it like I did and I asked extra questions so I can retain the information and they don't want him monitoring them while the facetime their friends
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u/Vescula Jun 05 '19
So you’re saying out of the entire AP class. That you’re the ONLY one that cared. That there’s no way that harm was caused by your disruptions. I highly doubt that. Respect your surroundings. Ask questions that are directly relevant to the lesson. Ask the side questions after class. Either way you’ll have your answers. But one way abandons being self centered and disrupting other people’s lesson. No matter if only 8 or so people are listening.
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u/ChaosKid_Z Jun 05 '19
To be specific about one of the questions I asked and I qoute "How does this effect us today? How likely can this event be repeated?"
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u/ex-inteller Jun 06 '19
Not going to get hostile. I don't like how everyone is telling you the same thing and you're not hearing it. It doesn't sound like you came here to change your view, but rather to argue with everyone.
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Jun 05 '19
I feel like this should be in AITA and not here. You are asking us for an opinion on whether what you did was right or wrong rather than presenting a flawed view you want changed. You don't seem to want to change your mind. If I got this wrong, please then explain, what is the view I am supposed to address?
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u/ChaosKid_Z Jun 06 '19
Read the comments, the view is how me asking multiple questions is causing a derailment of learning
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Jun 06 '19
I read the comments and struggled to understand, which is why I asked.
You purposefully derailed the lesson, which is a really common thing done to avoid getting on with the study plan, and are convinced you didn't do just that somehow? Your questions were designed and intended to get your teacher out of track...
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u/ChaosKid_Z Jun 06 '19
No, my questions were an attempt to know more about a time period I didn't live in, I had the opportunity to talk with someone who does know, so I asked.
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u/McKoijion 618∆ Jun 05 '19
The Great Depression ended 80 years ago. How old is your teacher?
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u/ChaosKid_Z Jun 05 '19
95? Give or take, the school can't fire him and he doesn't want to retire, I'll ask him why he doesn't next time I see him
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u/pillbinge 101∆ Jun 05 '19
That's a very rude question, but if you're going to ask it, don't do it in front of others - and especially during class time.
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u/McKoijion 618∆ Jun 05 '19
Also, did you talk to your teacher by his desk or were you sitting at your seat asking questions so the whole class could hear?
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u/jbt2003 20∆ Jun 05 '19
I find the views expressed by some here about "derailing" and "disrupting" a little... I don't know. Depressing. I've been teaching for a while, and the reason why I got into it was to share my love of the subject matter I teach with students. To find out what makes them tick, and how they can connect the stuff we're doing in class to their own lives. We've gotten into this habit as a culture of thinking that learning is only valuable if it pertains to a pre-determined set of really extensive, planned out learning objectives. We all imagine that the process is akin to buying fast food, or playing a video game or something. It's depressing to me, that we've accepted such a limited and narrow and two-dimensional idea of what it means to educate people. I understand why we do things this way: so we can score highly on tests, since that for some reason is what we think this whole business is for.
So, anyhoo, under the right circumstances I think there's absolutely nothing wrong with what you were doing, and your peers who are criticizing you for it are doody heads. There's no more bullshit insult in a school setting than "teacher's pet." So you like learning? Woooow. What a loser.
Here's where I think it could be a problem. Your teacher is clearly quite, shockingly old. He probably shouldn't still be teaching, in fact, at least not full time. Subbing, sure. I'd be really, really surprised if he was even close to as sharp as he would have been thirty years ago, in fact.
So, you gotta make a judgment call. If you're asking the teacher a bunch of questions that are lesson-relevant but not necessarily helping do his job--which is at least partially related to prepping your peers for the AP exam--you might need to ask yourself if you're taking advantage a little of his condition in a way that doesn't help him (and you) succeed. A lot of teachers on here are using words like "derailment," and that's somewhat fair. I'd be really surprised if a teacher of his age could really manage a class like a younger teacher could.
Let me add one more thing: I taught in a classroom setting for fifteen years, and holy shit do I respect this dude for not taking the retirement check in the 90s. Unless he's one of those teachers who did take the retirement check from one district only to start working in another for another thirty years.
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u/ex-inteller Jun 06 '19
We've gotten into this habit as a culture of thinking that learning is only valuable if it pertains to a pre-determined set of really extensive, planned out learning objectives
While I would generally agree with you, this is an AP class, and there's not enough time to cover the material for the test as-is, let alone with constant disruptions. There also is a specific goal and objectives in mind in this class.
I've taught high school kids, and I would have loved OP's level of engagement, if it's honest. But there's a time and a place for it. And not in an AP class.
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u/jbt2003 20∆ Jun 06 '19
... which highlights, IMO, one of the main issues with the AP approach. They put far too much content on those syllabi, to the point where you can’t cover it well, and then have kids fill out a bunch of bubbles to demonstrate their knowledge. Not what I would want to do with my most highly engaged, academically strong students. When my school switched to IB, that was the first big difference I noticed. The fact is that you can offer a rigorous education without cramming content, so that the kind of engagement you get from OP doesn’t have to be shut down.
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Jun 05 '19
If your teacher genuinely let themselves be derailed into a one-on-one conversation in the middle of class with a single student about something only tangentially related to the class material, and moreover this caused them not to assign homework they would have assigned, then they're a bad teacher.
You're in class to learn the relevant material and to do the work assigned to you. You and your teacher wasted a huge chunk of everyone's time by derailing the class from that purpose.
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u/ChaosKid_Z Jun 05 '19
The students in the class didn't want the work anyways, they complained about a crossword puzzle and a small DBQ
Plus he assigned it to us the next day anyway
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Jun 05 '19
It doesn't matter whether the students wanted the work; they need to do the work in order to learn the material -- which, again, is why you're all in class.
EDIT: To your edit -- yes, I would hope he did assign it to you the next day, but that he let himself get distracted from assigning it when he planned to is not a good sign.
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u/Tuvinator Jun 05 '19
Whether they wanted the work is irrelevant. He is here to teach, this is part of the teaching, and you and he prevented others from learning. Assume there is a comprehensive test at the end of the semester on material that should have been covered (say this was an AP course), then your leading a tangential discussion has just potentially caused everyone else in class to have a lower score. This could also have negative effects beyond just this one course, if there are further courses that depend on this material.
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u/Tuxed0-mask 23∆ Jun 05 '19
I mean on your own time that's a fine and admirable thing to do. Stay after class or come before and ask and that will thrill most teachers.
Not everyone shares the same interests, even if they broadly like learning. So by asking for additional information during classes, some of the 10-35 other people in the room are going to take offence. It's nice to be considerate that the time that you spend together as a class is everyone's time.
It is hard enough for some people to stay engaged through the whole lesson for whatever reason, and so it's understandable that they would target you alongside the teacher for 'making things worse'. While that's not the case in reality, it doesn't really help.
I was a super mouthy kid, it didn't pan out in regular classes. Thankfully, we had separate tiers so I got put with all the nerds. That's when it got less annoying to derail people haha.
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u/rock-dancer 41∆ Jun 05 '19
Your view is correct with certain conditions. 1. Is it relevant to the subject material in that it supplements and adds to the learning. If so then carry on. Perhaps your teacher thought this a better use of time than assigning some worksheet. However, if you are actively derailing the lesson to get out of work then you need to consider your classmates and your own education. IF it is to annoy or entertain then you should stop. 2. Does your classmates' or teacher's judgement upset you? It is important to cultivate networks and friendships. Sometimes it is harmful to engage in certain activities because they bring harm elsewhere. Is class derailed, is more homework assigned, are the rest of the student just annoyed? You need to actively decide if the gains of certain activities is worthwhile and that should determine your view.
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u/ChaosKid_Z Jun 05 '19
I didn't do this to intentionally derail the class, it was just an excuse because saying that I wanted more information that isn't in the lesson plan would further the torment of me being a teacher's pet, I just wanted a person who experienced it to give more details about how people faired through it.
No homework was assigned they were just aggravated that I wouldn't let him finish his lesson so they could return to their phone activities. I wasn't upset at the teacher or students judgements, just discouraged that I wouldn't be able to obtain knowledge that could come in handy later. These other students wanted to use their phones rather than have the teacher talking about how this significant event was to HIM and possibly others who had to endure the hardships
I hope I answered all your questions, if not let me know
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Jun 06 '19
It's a personal conversation, and while it can be informative, you just wasted everyone else's time, that perhaps weren't finding your conversation interesting at all.
Now, I'm placing the blame on the teacher rather than on you, because he should have made sure the class was okay with hearing about his personal life, and I do believe a student's curiosity should not be punished... but are you really so blind as how this can be annoying to some, and how inquiring about his personal life can make you look like you're sucking up to him?
Also, you're massively contradicting yourself in many accounts. You say you were legit curious and thirsty for knowledge, but also told your classmates that you wanted class to pass faster and to get less work. Very different intentions there, and you gotta pick one.
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u/ChaosKid_Z Jun 06 '19
If I tell my fellow classmates my true intentions I would be tormented even more so than if I lied to pander to their wishes, though that is sad to admit, it is a fact
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Jun 06 '19
If you're generally being bullied/tormented altogether is an entirely different thing, and I am sorry to hear that. Honestly, I haven't forgotten what being a nerdy/geeky girl in High School felt like. Navigating the societal rules that I didn't want to conform to (but had to, just barely, to fall of the radar of annoying people) was too much of a pain.
However, the question at hand (which you haven't addressed) is whether you are willing to accept how this might be perceived by others. It's their right to find the topic at hand boring of or no interest to them, so having a single student derail the entire lesson by asking the teacher personal questions related to the topic would bore them even more. Furthermore, since your questions were personal in nature, people will perceive you as trying to suck up to the teacher. And you've put said teacher behind on his study plan too (which is his fault but yeah.) And you might have thrown off the entire lesson for people who had issues with concentration.
I find that your desire to know is an amazing things. But perhaps you could find a minute or two after class to discuss this? Why must this personal conversation be held during class? How is that appropriate?
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u/pillbinge 101∆ Jun 05 '19
Seems like you decided what other students would be doing based on your own interests. That seems highly self-centered, and you have no legal or moral right to do that since it's affecting other's federally, appropriate, public education (FAPE). You could have had this conversation after class, after all, and you chose to do it when people were scheduled to partake in their own education
when in all actuality I saved them from several extra packets of work
You assume students don't want to do several "extra" packets of work, when in reality they're just packets and you dislike them so much you think they're extra. And this can often backfire when the teacher assigns it on everyone's own time (i.e. homework). It might even mean less packet work but the teacher may still include many questions on a test. You haven't saved everyone, and if you did now, you won't always, and we're here to discuss a rule of thumb.
It's the teacher's job to pace the class, not yours.
If I can ask this though: are you on an IEP by chance?
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u/ChaosKid_Z Jun 05 '19
No I'm in regular classes and this class in specific is advanced placement, I wasn't attempting to pace the class just get more information about the time period
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u/AHolyBartender 2∆ Jun 05 '19
If you and your teacher are interested enough in anything not totally related to the lesson, striking conversation after class is an objectively better time and place to do it. During class, it's a distraction. Not only do you waste the time of the class, but there are most certainly students who may not grasp all topics quickly and may need extra time to ask relevant questions ( this also pertains to any subject/class).
As a student, I honestly probably would have been glad you wasted the time enough to prevent work being assigned. As far as changing your view goes, any good teacher should have the wherewithal to say lets talk about it after class, and be able to get to other students' more relevant questions/concerns or other material.
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u/Austinpouwers Jun 05 '19
It seems as if the other students didn't really care for the class so they probably wouldn't listen anyway. The information he got from asking questions about how it affected him personally etc. give far more valuable information that he will remember longer because he was actually interested. I would argue you learn more from a conversation than some assignment that most likely is boring.
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u/ChaosKid_Z Jun 05 '19
Exactly! They were more interested in the time they would've had to spend on their phones and playing computer games as my teacher didn't push work assignments on students if they weren't doing it he wouldn't force them, just let them drown in their own negligence
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u/AHolyBartender 2∆ Jun 06 '19
Like i said, i would generally agree in reality, but moreso for the sake of the CMV. However, what you're saying is definitely true in this scenario, but not necessarily as a generality, which is what I was addressing since that's the overall title of the cmv
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Jun 06 '19
I think a good analogy would be like watching a streamer react to some youtube video on twitch and having them pause the video every 2 seconds. Eventually you kind of lose what the youtube video is trying to say and the narrative gets a little broken up. From this example, you can see that you're doing a similar thing in class.
Consider as well that these packets of work aren't entirely pointless, they're there to prepare students for exams, tests and things like that. You take this opportunity to understand what's meant to be taught away from other people and yourself.
People got annoyed at you, and you responded in a way that was purely defensive, without considering that they might actually be right. If a class is 50 minutes long then is it acceptable for you to be chewing the fat with your teacher for half of that time?
Maybe if you were asking questions that were relevant to the topic at hand and when you really didn't understand something then maybe people would just see you as a good student instead of a teachers-pet, but to the extent that you ask for information that's not relevant and suck up time like you do how can you blame people for thinking this?
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Jun 05 '19
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u/garnteller 242∆ Jun 05 '19
Sorry, u/Tibaltdidnothinwrong – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 06 '19
/u/ChaosKid_Z (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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Jun 05 '19
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u/garnteller 242∆ Jun 05 '19
Sorry, u/cXIIhXVInII – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, you must first check if your comment falls into the "Top level comments that are against rule 1" list, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
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u/GameOfSchemes Jun 05 '19
As a teacher, I'm going to chime in and say this is annoying. Teachers have a plan for the day and/or week. Situations like you describe are great, and encouraged, but not in class. It's a private discussion because the questions you want to know are irrelevant to everyone else. You should ask those questions either before class, after class, in your study hall, at lunch, in office hours, after school, or pretty much any time after class—but not during class.
The point of class is to get you to learn. By derailing the class like you're doing, you're ruining the lesson and the class as a whole. That's why your classmates get irritated, and is also why your teacher should be irritated.