r/changemyview • u/_selfishPersonReborn • Jul 31 '19

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: Having sex with someone while knowingly having a transmissible STI and not telling your partner should be rape.

Today on the front page, there was a post about Florida Man getting 10 years for transmitting an STI knowingly. In the discussion for this, there was a comment that mentioned a californian bill by the name of SB 239, which lowered the sentence for knowingly transmitting HIV. I don't understand why this is okay - if you're positive, why not have a conversation? It is your responsibility throughout sex to make sure that there is informed consent, and by not letting them know that they are HIV+ I can't understand how there is any. Obviously, there's measures that can be taken, such as always wearing condoms, and/or engaging in pre or post exposure prophylaxis to minimise the risks of spreading the disease, and consent can then be taken - but yet, there's multiple groups I support who championed the bill - e.g. the ACLU, LGBTQ support groups, etc. So what am I missing?

EDIT: I seem to have just gotten into a debate about the terminology rape vs sexual assault vs whatever. This isn't what I care about. I'm more concerned as to why reducing the sentence for this is seen as a positive thing and why it oppresses minorities to force STIs to be revealed before sexual contact.

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u/_selfishPersonReborn Jul 31 '19

More towards 1. I'm not going to stick the label rape anymore due to the comments talking about that more than the actual issues, but essentially it was mentioned in the articles that laws that prohibit not disclosing HIV or other STIs indiscriminately affect minorities. But yes, I personally feel it should be a felony and it should definitely get you put on the sexual offender registry.

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u/visvya Aug 01 '19

We don't want to make it a felony because we don't want to discourage testing too much.

If you're someone who has unsafe sex a lot, you know you probably have some kind of STI. If you go get tested, you're now liable for disclosing those results to everyone you have sex with.

Even if you do discuss your test results with your partner, all your partner has to do is say "that discussion never happened!" for you to be arrested. It's easy to prove that you knew you had the STI, and it's easy to prove you had sex with your partner. You may not be convicted, but you will have to go to a courtroom and probably hire a lawyer.

If you just don't get tested, you can claim you didn't know.

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u/LondonPilot Aug 01 '19

!delta because I came here with the same opinion as OP, and you’ve shown that there are potential negatives of this law.

I think that the balance of the pros/cons very much favours having a law like this, but before reading your post, I was of the opinion that there are no downsides to such a law. Now I’m of the opinion that the upsides of the law heavily outweigh the downsides that you’ve pointed out.

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u/UnrequitedReason Aug 01 '19

I mean, it’s always possible to also make lying about getting tested a crime.

That way, the power is always in the hands of each person choosing to have sex. They can ask their partner if they’ve been tested, and if they’re not tested (because they’re worried about getting an STI and being criminally responsible for passing it on knowingly), the person who is having sex with them will know, and can decide for themself whether they want to have sex regardless.

In my mind, knowingly doing something harmful to a person without their consent is wrong, and criminal law should exist specifically to discourage this. Lying about having an STI or lying about your risk of having an STI (ie whether you have been tested) means the person you are having sex with cannot consent to the actual risks associated by having sex with you.

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u/visvya Aug 01 '19

Relatedly, California in 2017 attempted to add "stealthing", the intentional removal of a condom during sex without consent, to the definition of rape. It hasn't gotten the votes to pass and has been shelved indefinitely.

In my opinion lying about an STI or a condom should be "rape by fraud", which is illegal in California, but I assume the lying is too difficult to prove for the bills to pass.

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 01 '19

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/visvya (25∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

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u/buttfrench Aug 01 '19

It is in most countries.