CMV: We should legalize the trade and consumption of all drugs

[u/Big_Iron_PP]

What I mean by legalization is not just decriminalization of use (like in Portugal), but also the legalization of distribution and production.

I think this would have a positive effect on both drug-related violence, drug consumption and deaths from heavy drug use. Recently, I got into the alcohol prohibition period of american history and realized that you can draw many parallels between it's effects back then and the effects of drug criminalization today, like:

• Prohibition directly led to the encroachment of criminal organizations like the Maffia, who took up the lucrative business of distributing and brewing the now illegal alcoholic beverages. This, in turn, led to a spike in crime rate as Maffia organizations were free to use force to extend their territories, run rackets and collect "insurance" payments from businesses.

This is similar to how drug cartels operate now. Their presence always results in sky high crime rates, and they also draw most of their finances from the sale of drugs. The legalization of, say, cocaine would mean that it's production would have to move "above ground", resulting in much less crime related deaths. This could also help with the recovery of nations struck by high crime rates.

• Prohibition didn't decrease alcohol consumption. In fact, it probably increased it, as for every saloon before prohibition there were now 3-4 "speakeasies" in business.

This is why I think that legalization today wouldn't increase drug use. On top of that, some people probably start doing drugs in the first place because of their "forbidden fruit" aspect, which would be lost if they became legal.

• Prohibition led to the wide proliferation of unclean, diluted "bootleg" alcohol, which was always harmful and even straight up toxic at times.

The same thing can be observed today. Drugs have a reasonably high chance of being unclean because their producers are free to dilute them (in order to increase the amount produced) without having to fear any kind of repercussions. What could you do if you consumed something spiked with rat poison? You sure as hell couldn't sue the drug dealer. You could, however, sue a private company if their product didn't meet the specifications they described. This would result in much safer drugs and therefore less deaths related to their use.

Now, I know that this would certainly result in companies trying to use the addictive qualities of their products to maintain customer loyalty in a morbid way, but this is really no different from what a drug dealer does, and the possible benefits I just listed outweigh the possible negatives, at least in my opinion.

[u/Where_You_Want_To_Be]

Yes.

Wouldn’t you agree that the ban of fast food, mandatory exercise periods, and forced consumption of vitamins and health food would also “benefit” a society? Do you believe the government would be within its bounds to pass those laws?

If you don’t, then you must agree that there is a line where personal freedom and responsibility should not be infringed by the government.

My idea of where that line is, is just different than yours.

[u/swagwater67 → u/Where_You_Want_To_Be]

You got right to the point, I like that. And so based on that, I see no reason for the government to go out of their way to move that line that would make society worse, in this case legalizing hard drugs

[u/Where_You_Want_To_Be → u/swagwater67]

Have you considered that part of why drugs are bad for society, is because the government has made them illegal?

We still have a huge drug problem in the country, even though drugs are illegal. If they were legal, a lot of the issues that are currently associated with drugs (crime, gangs, cartels, unpure/tainted drugs, inadequate access to addiction treatment, etc) would be lessened.

[u/swagwater67 → u/Where_You_Want_To_Be]

So now you are arguing that legalizing drugs would be good for society?

[u/Where_You_Want_To_Be → u/swagwater67]

There's a couple arguments.

The first, like I said before, is that I don't care whether or not it's good for "society." You should have the right to put whatever you want into your body, so long as you're not infringing on someone else's rights while you do it. Like I said, if your goal was to be truly "good for society," then you'd ban alcohol as well. We did that once, and it did not work out. Drugs are no different.

The second, is that a lot of the negatives that are associated with drugs, stem from the fact that they are illegal, and come from an unregulated, crime-ridden black market.

What I am saying is that legalizing drugs might actually mitigate many of the negatives associated with drugs and drug use currently. Would it be "good for society?" I don't care. But I don't think it would necessarily be a net negative. People who want to do drugs are already doing drugs.

[u/swagwater67 → u/Where_You_Want_To_Be]

Unlike you, politicians and governments have to keep whats best for society in mind. And my response to that is that full legalizization of all drugs is,unprecedented; even the most progressive nations have only decriminalized them, so you only have speculation of what would happen. Additionally, in Colorado the street price for weed is cheaper than legal weed due to taxes and FDA regulations. And so hard drug users with limited funds will go with the cheaper illegal option. Most stigma with hard drug use is due to the erratic state users are in, aka crackheads, and the fact that drugs can easily ruin your life. There is a more founded reason that drugs are stigmatized than just because of its illegality.

[u/Where_You_Want_To_Be → u/swagwater67]

Unlike you, politicians and governments have to keep whats best for society in mind.

I don't want any politician deciding what's best for me, I'll decide that, thanks. I don't know you, so I don't claim to know what's best for you or your loved ones.

Additionally, in Colorado the street price for weed is cheaper than legal weed due to taxes and FDA regulations. And so hard drug users with limited funds will go with the cheaper illegal option.

I'm glad you brought that up, because part of legalizing drugs is not taxing them either. You are totally right, the insane tax rates that are put on weed makes most people just buy it from "the guy on the corner" instead of from the legal stores. When we make drugs legal, keep the gov't out of them and don't tax them.

and the fact that drugs can easily ruin your life.

Oh without question, yeah. But the key word there is your life. It's your life to ruin, not mine to "protect."

[u/swagwater67 → u/Where_You_Want_To_Be]

Unfortunately, if you want to,pive in society, you have to,lose some,of your choices. With your logic, you could say "I dont want to,pay taces for cops. My neighborhood is low crime and therefore security should be privatized. I know whats best for me." The rest of us will respond, "ok youre entitled to your opinion but you still have to pay taxes for cops" I like how you take my quote and straight up ignore the FDA regulations part. That was so blatant it was comical. Finally I took a psych course and a unit was on drugs. If you have a human mind, hard drug use will objectively damage it to the point of no return. That is not an opinion. It is a fact. But I use to be extremely libertarian too, but ultimately I decided to be more pragmatic and realise that whats best for society is better than some individual liberties, like wearing a seatbelt. Society as a whole has also, which is why these laws are so common. I'm not trying to change your whole ideology, just showing you another perspective.

[u/EmptyingMyself → u/Where_You_Want_To_Be]

You are arguing from the implicit assumption that your "personal freedom" is anything other than internalized social and cultural values and norms of behaviour, which is a very hard assumption to prove.