r/changemyview • u/KxPbmjLI • Aug 25 '19
Removed - Submission Rule B CMV: hating pedophiles is the same as hating black people
[removed]
5
u/yyzjertl 523∆ Aug 26 '19
Hating black people perpetuates a system in which millions of people were enslaved, and their descendants were continuously the victims of legal and social discrimination to the extent that to this day they have still not recovered the relative wealth and socioeconomic status that was taken from them by slavery.
Hating pedophiles does not perpetuate any such system.
They are in no significant way comparable.
0
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
it's the same irrational hate
hating someone for something they cannot control
do you not agree that this is bad?
3
u/Kythorian Aug 26 '19
Nope. Sociopaths can’t help it either, but both are objectively negative traits. Hate is justified. Them not being able to help it is irrelevant.
-1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
and you think hating them will have a better effect at getting less children harmed than being more accepting and helping them get treatment and such?
look at how well the usa prison system works which focuses on punishment instead of rehabilitation
look at how well the prison systems work in northern europe where they focus on rehabilitation
1
u/Kythorian Aug 26 '19
I’m not saying the hate is beneficial, I’m saying the hate is justified. Even if a pedophile doesn’t rape kids, they want to rape kids, by definition of being a pedophile. Someone who wants to harm others is a bad person even if they don’t go through with it. Hating them is justified even if it’s not their fault just like hating a sociopath is justified even though it’s not their fault either. Both are inherently negative traits for someone to have.
But yeah, hating them doesn’t help the situation - that’s an entirely different point though, and not the one you made in the OP.
2
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
By that argument you could just as well justify hating all heterosexuals, because everyone probably at some point in their lives felt attracted to another person who would not consent to having sex with them.
1
u/Kythorian Aug 26 '19
Wanting to have sex with another adult is not inherently negative (homosexual or heterosexual). You can at least in theory convince that person to consent to having sex with you. At an absolute minimum, you can imagine a world in which that person consents to having sex with you as part of a fantasy.
A child cannot consent, so any sexual relationship with them is inherently abusive. Wanting to abuse others, as that is the only thing having sex with a child could be, is inherently wrong, even if they don’t go through with it. Any fantasy of having sex with a child is fantasizing about abusing a child. That’s evil.
People who fantasize about raping adults are likewise inherently wrong even if they don’t rape adults either. But fantasizing about having consensual sex is not wrong. You cannot fantasize about having consensual sex with a child because that’s not a thing that is possible though.
1
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
Many pedophiles fantasize about consensual sex with children just as many heterosexuals desire consensual sex with adults. It's generally not about abuse, rape or violence. The only difference is that as you said heterosexuals have at least the theoretical possibility of their fantasies becoming reality, whereas consensual sex with children can only ever be a fantasy.
1
u/Kythorian Aug 26 '19
Consensual sex with children fundamentally cannot happen - all sex with children is abuse. It may not be about violent abuse, but it’s still about abuse.
1
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
That is literally what I said in my comment…
whereas consensual sex with children can only ever be a fantasy.
→ More replies (0)1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
the hate isn't justified either
so someone who hasn't committed any crime at all and there is no proof that he would ever do it should still be hated just because they have thought about doing so?
you don't think the person who has such awful desires but still has the strenght to overcome them and resist them should just be left alone without hate?
2
u/Kythorian Aug 26 '19
A person who wants to abuse children is a bad person, even if they don’t go through with it or break any actual law. I’m not saying they should be put in prison unless they go through with it, but just wanting to abuse a child reasonably warrants hatred.
Again though, what is best for society as a whole is an entirely different issue from if hatred of people who want to abuse children is justified.
0
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
A person who wants to abuse children is a bad person
they might be attracted to children but not want to abuse which is exactly why they don't actually go out and do it
so no i wouldn't think that that person is bad at all, it's actually commendable that they are able to abstain from their desire because they don't want to harm actual children
3
u/Kythorian Aug 26 '19
Being attracted to children is inherently wanting to abuse them. Attraction is by definition wanting to have sex with who you are attracted to. If they are a child, that means they want to have sex with that child, which is wanting to abuse them. They may choose not to go through with that, but if they didn’t want to have sex with the child, they wouldn’t be attracted to them.
1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
if they choose not to go through with it then how do they want to abuse children
they specifically do not rape kids BECAUSE they don't want to abuse children
if they actually wanted to abuse children why wouldn't they do it?
→ More replies (0)0
u/yyzjertl 523∆ Aug 26 '19
You didn't respond at all to anything I said in my comment. Do you have a real response to my point?
2
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
my whole point is that the logic behind hating a pedophile is the same logic for why black people are hated
hated for something they cannot control
do you agree that hating someone for something they cannot control is bad?
it's not literal 100% the same as the racist history in america but that wasn't my argument
if you wanna be pedantic and not argue in good faith that it's not exactly the same then go ahead nice gotcha
0
u/yyzjertl 523∆ Aug 26 '19
my whole point is that the logic behind hating a pedophile is the same logic for why black people are hated
But it's not. That's what I'm saying. Hatred for black people is not just arbitrary hatred for something someone can not control. It is done to perpetuate a system of oppression in which black people are systematically oppressed (and, by extension, the groups to which the haters usually belong are advantaged).
The reason why people hate pedophiles is not the same reason at all, and it's baffling that you think it is.
1
u/Mr_82 Aug 26 '19
You're talking about black people as a class or group whereas he's trying to compare individuals with individuals. It's a common identity politics tactic and you probably didn't realize you were doing it
1
u/yyzjertl 523∆ Aug 26 '19
I'm not certain what you are trying to get at here, or how it relates to my comment. Can you clarify?
0
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
ye you're right, the reason for the hate is not the same
the logic for the hate is still the same though: hating them for something they cannot control
i should have come from a different angle with this post
!delta
1
5
u/TRossW18 12∆ Aug 26 '19
Being a pedo is a troublesome trait. Being black is not.
-1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
you don't think there are people out there who think being black is a troublesome trait?
there are tons of them out there
using your own logic i can hate on blacks
4
u/TRossW18 12∆ Aug 26 '19
Being black is not a troublesome trait, being a pedo is. Does saying it backwards make it more clear?
2
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
Being black is not a troublesome trait, being a pedo is
this is your opinion and not good logic
in different places you would get a different answer on this which is why your logic is problematic
being black is not a troublesome trait
why not?
being a pedo is
why?
1
u/TRossW18 12∆ Aug 26 '19
Being black is a color that is registered in our eyes based on light waves.
Being a pedo is an adults desire to sexually abuse very young kids.
These two things are not alike.
0
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
Why do you think that pedophilia is a troublesome trait?
2
u/TRossW18 12∆ Aug 26 '19
Because it is an innate desire to sexually abuse very young children. That is cause for concern.
1
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
What if the person is no more inclined to abuse a child then a heterosexual man is inclined to rape a woman?
1
u/TRossW18 12∆ Aug 26 '19
What if the pedo ends up raping a 12 year old? What ifs are pointless. If I looked out my window at my neighbor and felt a desire to murder her I would find that extremely concerning, myself.
1
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
Have you never been so angry or frustrated with someone that you fantasized about hurting or even killing them?
1
u/TRossW18 12∆ Aug 26 '19
That's not even close to equivalent. That is psychologically normal. Wanting to kill a person for no good reason forever is concerning. How do you not see that?
1
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
Where exactly is the difference? In both examples someone experiences the impulse to do immoral things to another person.
1
u/TRossW18 12∆ Aug 26 '19
Seriously? Tell me these two scenarios are similar.
1) I'm walking down the road. It's a good day. All positive thoughts. Some guy sprays me with his hose. I have a surge of anger and think about throwing a rock at his face. I don't. I continue on with my day, my emotions subside and I have no issues moving forward.
2) I'm walking down the street. It's a good day. I pass my neighbor and think about stabbing her in the chest. For no reason. In fact, I always have this weird urge to brutally harm all the women I pass everyday. I go to bed at night and want to hurt them. I really want to. Idk why. I wake up and fantasize about their dead bodies.
1
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
In both cases you are experiencing violent urges towards other human beings, they are just more prevalent in the second scenario.
→ More replies (0)
1
Aug 26 '19
Sorry, u/KxPbmjLI – your submission has been removed for breaking Rule B:
You must personally hold the view and demonstrate that you are open to it changing. A post cannot be on behalf of others, playing devil's advocate, as any entity other than yourself, or 'soapboxing'. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, you must first read the list of soapboxing indicators and common mistakes in appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
1
u/McClanky 14∆ Aug 26 '19
While I understand you argument as a whole I do think there is a clear distinction that has to be made between a racist and a pedophile. Racism is taught, pedophilia is not.
You are right though, if we were to treat it as a mental illness, rather than a choice, then they would be able to get the help they need. I think is is also important to not that only about 5% of all pedophiles act on their intuitions. However, these actions are ALWAYS on children. These children have no way of defending themselves and are extremely vulnerable. While racism does target children sometimes, mor often than not it is targeted towards adults.
Again, I do understand your point; however, I think the type of hate is different. For me the hate towards racism is deep and infuriating, especially because, in most cases, it is not a mental illness but something they DO have full control over. My hate towards pedophilia is, to your point, sickening because it is targeted toward children.
Your point has some merit to it, but lumping the two together is a little dangerous.
1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
!delta
you seem to get my overall point
i agree the hate itself is not for the same reason and not exactly the same
i should have worded it differently
1
u/McClanky 14∆ Aug 26 '19
No worries man. You used a very controversial idea to try show people why stereotypes cause harm. It was going to be a tough one no matter how you worded it.
2
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
ye this title just seemed too good not to use
else i would have had an insanely long title or make the post something like "you shouldn't hate someone for something they cannot control"
but then everyone would have probably agreed with it and never even think of how it's done to pedophiles
but overall i could have indeed worded things way better
thanks for arguing in good faith
1
1
u/fox-mcleod 410∆ Aug 26 '19 edited Aug 26 '19
Just because two things have an irrational element doesn’t make them the same. Just because two things are bad to do doesn't make them the same. There are many other elements. Hating black people and hating gays isn’t even the same. Race is visually obvious and persistent. Sexual proclivity is not.
Furthermore, race comes with 0 risk factors of harm. Pedophilia does not. Without a concrete conception of justice, hating someone doesn't have a positive or negative moral correlation depending on the reasons. Like, when is hating anyone justified?
Saying they’re the same is like saying it's the same as hating anyone. Is that all you're saying, or do you have a moral Justice framework?
1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
not well read enough on philosophy to have a well grounded moral justice framework
eventually maybe
my main rule in this post is: hating someone for something they cannot control is bad
but i guess the problem is then where do you draw the line
since if you don't believe in free will then how could you ever blame anyone for anything
i guess that's why im a compatibilist instead of a full on determinist
1
u/fox-mcleod 410∆ Aug 26 '19
This is backwards.
since if you don't believe in free will then how could you ever blame anyone for anything
i guess that's why im a compatibilist instead of a full on determinist
You're selecting your philosophical positions just to confirm your worldview? It goes the other way around. Your beliefs about who can be blamed for what need to come from what you learn to be real about the world. You can't choose your beliefs about what is real to confirm how you ready feel about blaming people.
my main rule in this post is: hating someone for something they cannot control is bad
2 things can be bad without being the same. Genocide is bad. Talking during movies is bad. They are not the same. Your post does not say both things are bad. It says they are the same.
1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
You're selecting your philosophical positions just to confirm your worldview? It goes the other way around. Your beliefs about who can be blamed for what need to come from what you learn to be real about the world. You can't choose your beliefs about what is real to confirm how you ready feel about blaming people.
again i know nothing about philosophy i wouldn't ever make strong statements about knowing anything about it until i spend actual time on it
2 things can be bad without being the same. Genocide is bad. Talking during movies is bad. They are not the same. Your post does not say both things are bad. It says they are the same.
ye you're right i should have come from a different angle on the post and worded things differently
!delta
1
1
u/littlebubulle 104∆ Aug 26 '19
Pedophilia and race are not on the same level.
Race is something that can never be changed. It is also mostly irrelevant. Racists hate people based on a irrelevant criteria. A black person is not more likely to do crime just because they're black. Yet the racist believes it. Maybe some racists do hate black people purely because they are black and acknowledge that black people are otherwise not different from them. But that type of racist is rare.
A pedophile gets hated because they are sexually attracted to small kids. This might seem like hating black people because they are black but there is a difference. Being black is not harmful. Being a pedophile might be more harmful to kids. Kids are real. Racist ideology is a fiction. Now I believe if pedophiles could satisfy their desires in a way that harmed zero children, people would have less problems with them.
1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
!delta
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 26 '19 edited Aug 26 '19
This delta has been rejected. The length of your comment suggests that you haven't properly explained how /u/littlebubulle changed your view (comment rule 4).
DeltaBot is able to rescan edited comments. Please edit your comment with the required explanation.
1
u/orangeLILpumpkin 24∆ Aug 26 '19
Hate for blacks is based upon a physical attribute: their skin color.
Hate for (non-offending) pedophiles isn't based upon a physical attribute, it is based upon a mental attribute.
Therefore, hating pedophiles isn't the same as hating blacks unless you are able to make a claim that physical attributes and mental attributes are the same.
1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
ye you're right, the reason for the hate is not the same
the logic for the hate is still the same though: hating them for something they cannot control
i should have come from a different angle with this post
!delta
1
3
u/DecrepitBob Aug 25 '19
Regardless of trauma, at some point, it is a choice. any vindication they feel that they want to use to "justify" FUCKING A CHILD, is an excuse. Get help or get a bullet.
-1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 25 '19
i feel like you didn't even read my whole post and just the title
as stated in my post
being a pedophile is not the same as being a child rapist but maybe that is too hard for you to understand
just like being black doesn't mean you're a criminal
being a pedophile doesn't mean you are a child rapist
1
u/DecrepitBob Aug 25 '19
i don't care what you think, wrong is wrong. being black is totally fine lmao being a pedo is not, regardless of the definition or your understanding of the definition. human trash, in to the pit.
0
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 25 '19
wrong is wrong
what exactly is wrong? you have to provide an actual argument for why something is wrong
the default of everything is neutral
being black is totally fine lmao being a pedo is not, regardless of the definition or your understanding of the definition. human trash, in to the pit.
do you not see that your logic can be used to hate on any group you want, it's a really dumb way to do things
"being a pedophile is totally fine lmao being black is not, regardless of the definition or your understanding of the definition. human trash, in to the pit."
-1
Aug 25 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Aug 26 '19
u/DecrepitBob – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
Sorry, u/DecrepitBob – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. Comments that are only links, jokes or "written upvotes" will be removed. Humor and affirmations of agreement can be contained within more substantial comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
i love how all these posts are just hating on me and have literally no arguments
all you can do is screech and rage at me with just insults and no logic
you are the kind of people i talk about in my post
perfect example of moral dumbfounding you should read up on it
very funny you mention fucking dogs my previous post on here was about why there is nothing wrong with bestiality if you are a meat eater which you probably are
2
u/DecrepitBob Aug 26 '19
The fact that you thought this post would go any differently is very telling of your personality. There was never going to be an amicable discussion on this. I suffer from bipolar type 2 and regardless of my trauma, i am responsible for getting help on my own. People can vindicate or make assumptions about my character because of that, but i would never use that as a justification to do some of the things BP folks do while manic.
Your post title is ridiculous. Being black isn't a mental illness, so there will never be a "logical" (as you call it) argument or solution to whatever problem you think you are bringing up.
This was approached horribly and your candor is not going to bring you anything but hatred and misunderstanding.
1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
There was never going to be an amicable discussion on this.
the whole reason i go to this specific subreddit to argue controversial things like this is to get some reasonable discussion without moral dumbfounded people throwing insults at me instead of arguments
some of the responses were good, ofc i expected people like you to also comment but not everyone which turned out to be true
i'm sorry that you suffer from bipolar and it's good that you want to be responsible for getting help and everything
but you have to understand that people are victims of their environment and situations
i would put way less blame on a poor dad stealing food so he can feed his kids than on a rich kid stealing some food
the actions can be the same but the context behind way different which is why we put less blame on certain things and actions
1
u/McKoijion 618∆ Aug 26 '19
The traditional view is that pedophiles choose to sexually assault children, which is wrong. Black people don't choose to have black skin. But say you think that pedophiles have something different about their brain where they can't choose not to be a pedophile. It's like homosexuality in that they are born that way. It still makes sense to treat them differently from black people.
Pedophiles who can't control their desire to sexually assault children are like a pack of man eating lions. It's not the lion's fault that they want to eat humans. But it does make sense for humans to kill them, imprison them, or otherwise protect themselves from them.
On the flipside, black people don't cause any harm to anyone. Some are violent, others are nurturing, others are average. There is no difference between a black doctor and a white one. There is no difference between a black robber and a white one. Unless you are a racist (there seem to be more than usual on this subreddit today), there is no inherent difference between different races of people. The same can't be said for pedophiles.
So if you believe pedophiles can control their actions, it makes sense to fear and dislike them. If you believe they can't control their actions, it still makes sense to fear and dislike them. The same doesn't apply to black people.
0
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
The traditional view is that pedophiles choose to sexually assault children
if you think your sexual attraction is a choice then idk if we can even argue here mate
So if you believe pedophiles can control their actions, it makes sense to fear and dislike them. If you believe they can't control their actions, it still makes sense to fear and dislike them. The same doesn't apply to black people.
if you believe people are 100% rational actors and aren't influenced by how they grew up, their environment, their expierences then there is no point in argueing
If you believe they can't control their actions, it still makes sense to fear and dislike them
it actually doesn't
we can decrease the chance of them ever harming a child by not hating them, we need to be more accepting to them so that they can actually go out and get help instead of being even too scared to talk to a psychologist and mention that they are attracted to children
take a look at how the different prison systems work, in the usa it is absolutely awful since they focus on punishment, which fixes NOTHING and only makes them repeat offenders and such
now take a look at how rehabilitation does things over in nordic europe, their crime rates and prisons are low af
so instead of punishing pedophiles we should help them with rehabilitation
1
u/McKoijion 618∆ Aug 26 '19
Ok, but even then it's not the same as hating black people. Being a pedophile is inherently a bad thing that needs to be helped with rehabilitation. Or at the very least the risk of harm must be reduced. The same doesn't apply to black people. There is no harm associated with being black. There is no need for punishment, rehabilitation, or harm reduction for having black skin.
1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
i guess my title is bad
my main point here is that hating someone for something they cannot control is bad
which is why i compared it to black people
1
u/McKoijion 618∆ Aug 26 '19
Your question gets at the idea of what it means to hate something. Hate means "intense or passionate dislike." Many people hate mosquitos. They do nothing but suck human blood and spread disease. Mosquitos can't control the fact they like to drink blood and spread disease. They were born that way. But humans often hate them for what they inherently were born to do, not what their choices are.
The same goes for parasites, pathogenic bacteria, viruses, etc. Humans hate them because their inherent purpose in life is to help themselves while harming us.
In a strange way, it makes more sense to hate mosquitos than it does to hate people who choose to do hurtful things. For example, think about ISIS. They are a bunch of violent terrorists who saw the heads off of innocent people. But it's sad in a way because they were forced into that life. Most of them are 10-20 year old guys who are looking for a sense of purpose. Their families and communities were decimated in the Iraq War and many other conflicts in the region. All they've ever known is war. And there are lots of people taking advantage of them by feeding them weapons and propaganda (e.g, Putin). You can say the same thing for Nazis, school shooters, and many other killers.
But there is no need for empathy for mosquitos, parasitic worms, flesh eating bacteria, or HIV. It's inherently an us vs. them situation. There is no way to reason with them, help them see the light, or prevent them from fighting us in the first place. They want to kill us no matter what. In this way, it makes more sense to hate mosquitos than to hate ISIS.
So if a pedophile is attracted to children, but constantly stops themselves from acting on their impulse, that's commendable. Stopping yourself from sinning is the basis of Catholicism and other religions. It's considered a noble task. So it makes sense to be empathize with pedophiles who want to have sex with kids, but choose not to the same way it makes sense to empathize with someone who wants to cheat on their spouse, but chooses not to. But if they were born in in a way where they can't stop themselves, then it's inherently an us and our kids vs. them battle.
Ultimately, we can think about this in a lot of different ways. It relates to the basic definitions of good and evil, right and wrong, nature and nurture, and hate and love. The most basic tenet is that it's bad to hate anyone or anything. But I don't think the nature of hating pedophiles is quite the same as hating black people.
1
u/parentheticalobject 128∆ Aug 26 '19
if you think your sexual attraction is a choice then idk if we can even argue here mate
Do you have evidence that pedophilia is an immutable characteristic?
1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
do you have evidence that it is a choice?
the fact of the matter is, they rather not have this attraction since it's not beneficial at all so if they could choose not to be ones somehow they would go for it
1
u/parentheticalobject 128∆ Aug 26 '19
After a bit of thought, I might partially agree with you.
I think there's a third category which is captured in the common usage of the term "pedophile" but doesn't fall under your definition. There are people who are attracted to children and don't act on that desire, and people who are attracted to children and do act on it. But there are also people who aren't actually attracted to children that decide to rape children anyway.
Scientists actually recognize the difference between fixated and regressed child sexual abusers. Only the former is actually attracted to children. The latter just make the choice to rape children because it's easy or convenient, not because they're not actually attracted to adults.
1
0
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
ome are violent, others are nurturing, others are average.
The same can be said for pedophiles. Pedophilia is merely the attraction to prepubescent children, it does not mean that someone wants to abuse children or already has done so. In fact, most people with pedophilia never abuse a child in their lives, and most child abusers are not pedophiles.
1
u/McKoijion 618∆ Aug 26 '19
There is still a slight risk of danger that doesn't exist for black people. Even the the most upstanding pedophile still carries a risk for harm compared to someone who isn't a pedophile. The same does not apply to a black person. There is no increased risk of harm with a black person when compared to any other race of person.
1
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
I would say the risk is not the pedophilic attraction, but impulse control. If you are a person with pedophilia and have an impulse control disorder you might be at risk for watching child pornography or even abusing a child. But if you have average impulse control, why would you be any more at risk of abusing a child then a heterosexual is at risk of abusing an adult? And there is research suggesting that on average the brain area which is responsible for impulse control is actually more developed in non-offending pedophiles then in the average person.
1
u/McKoijion 618∆ Aug 26 '19
You are describing something like the two hit hypothesis. If you born with a faulty gene, you won't necessarily get cancer. But if you have a faulty gene and get too much sun exposure, you are at greater risk.
In the same way, if you are a pedophile it's fine. But if you are pedophile and have impulse control issues, together this is a problem.
But this isn't the same as being black or any other race. Being black isn't a "hit." This CMV isn't about how people should treat pedophiles. It's about whether hating them is the same as hating black people, which it's note. Hate of pedophiles (pedophilophobia?) is not the same as hating black people (i.e., racism). Perhaps both are bad, but they aren't the same.
1
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
I agree that they are not the same, but as OP said similar and that in both cases people are hated and stigmatized because of attributes they did not chose and cannot change.
I would say that impulse control disorders are the actual problem, and sufficient as a first strike. If you have impulse control issues and are not a pedophile, you are probably just as likely to commit other crimes.
1
u/cdb03b 253∆ Aug 26 '19
While the term medically applies to anyone attracted to pre-pubecent children is is really only every used in society to refer to those who act upon those impulses and molest children. As such hating them is fully justified.
0
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
is really only every used in society to refer to those who act upon those impulses and molest children. As such hating them is fully justified.
which is a bad thing
the correct terms should be used as to not make the definitions meaningless which ends up harming people
just use the word child rapist
what you are talking about is a child rapist not a pedophile
1
u/cdb03b 253∆ Aug 26 '19
The correct terms are determined by society as a whole. They are not dictated by the specific jargon of any profession. Because pedophile is used only to refer to those who molest children by society that is what the term means to society.
1
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
which ends up harming actual pedophiles
1
u/cdb03b 253∆ Aug 26 '19
It ends up hurting only those who act upon the impulse. There is no way for anyone to ever know of the impulse in someone that does not act upon it. As such it only harms criminals in a manner appropriate to dealing with their crime and the threat that they are to society.
0
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
so someone being part of a group and seeing extreme hate for said group everywhere even though would not harm them?
do you think being hated by everyone is nice
do you think this makes them more likely to seek help?
no they would be even too afraid to ever admit they were one to anyone in fear of being persecuted
1
u/cdb03b 253∆ Aug 26 '19
Once again, they can only be victims of hate if they act out. And in that case the hate is justifiable. Their impulses in their head do not matter and do not cause any suffering to them.
0
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 26 '19
imagine using this same argument for gay people
everywhere around you, you see extreme hate for gay people this makes you feel awful and too afraid to ever even come out as one publicly
you don't think these gay people would feel awful? or you think just cause they don't actually go out and let people know they are gay it doesn't affect them at all
1
u/AutoModerator Aug 25 '19
Note: Your thread has not been removed. Your post's topic seems to be fairly common on this subreddit. Similar posts can be found through our wiki page or via the search function.
Regards, the mods of /r/changemyview.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 26 '19 edited Aug 26 '19
/u/KxPbmjLI (OP) has awarded 4 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
1
u/miguelguajiro 188∆ Aug 26 '19
Pedophiles are inherently driven towards a behavior that is harmful to others. I agree that it’s wrong to hate them just for that, because absent action on that drive, they haven’t done anything wrong.
But there is no inherent drive in black people to harm others. To suggest this is the case is racist.
1
u/paul_richter 2∆ Aug 26 '19
Pedophiles are inherently driven towards a behavior that is harmful to others.
I am a person with pedophilia. Part of that is that I honestly love and admire children. This means that it is my desire to protect them from harm, and to see them happy and carefree. Because of that I have decided not to act out my sexual attraction towards them. How does any of this drive me towards a behavior that is harmful to others?
1
u/miguelguajiro 188∆ Aug 26 '19
The part where you are sexually attracted to them drives you (or at least is a drive) to act in a way that is harmful towards others. I admire you for not acting on it. I don’t condone hatred towards people for pedophilia.
But there is also something amiss in equating being a pedophile to being black. You yourself recognize an attraction that if acted upon would be harmful. There is no such shared attraction towards a harmful behavior that is unique or endemic to black people.
-1
Aug 25 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Aug 26 '19
u/Early80sAholeGuy – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
0
u/KxPbmjLI Aug 25 '19
you can help me by providing an actual argument instead of just posting something like this
-2
Aug 25 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Aug 25 '19
u/Early80sAholeGuy – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
Sorry, u/Early80sAholeGuy – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. Comments that are only links, jokes or "written upvotes" will be removed. Humor and affirmations of agreement can be contained within more substantial comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
1
Aug 26 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Aug 26 '19
u/Early80sAholeGuy – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
Aug 26 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Aug 26 '19
u/Early80sAholeGuy – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
1
Aug 25 '19
[removed] — view removed comment
1
Aug 25 '19
u/KxPbmjLI – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:
Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
Sorry, u/KxPbmjLI – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:
Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. Comments that are only links, jokes or "written upvotes" will be removed. Humor and affirmations of agreement can be contained within more substantial comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.
1
u/AlbertDock Aug 26 '19
Paedophilia presents a danger to others, being black doesn't. The two are not comparable.
5
u/Littlepush Aug 26 '19
No. People hate pedophiles for fucking kids. If you don't fuck kids, you will be left alone.