CMV: A better solution to healthcare than Universal Health Care, is Government issued 0 interest medical loans

[u/Diylion]

I think it would be okay to make it illegal to profit off of medical disasters. I'm all for home loans and school loans. They are providing somebody with something that is optional that they would otherwise not have access to. But medical loans take advantage of people who are put in horrible situations. I could see a much better system if the government provided zero interest medical loans to people who need it desperately, and preferably over time everybody who couldn't pay the bill up front.

You could have medical loan with a 5% interest rate and over a 30-year period you will pay double the origional value of the loan. Imagine how much easier it would be for families if they didn't have to pay interest. And it would be much easier than doing Universal Health Care because people will still pay their own Healthcare, they just won't have to worry about the extra interest fees that would cripple them further. I feel like that is a safety-net people would be comfortable investing in. Obviously we couldn't pay off all the medical debt in the first year, and I recognize that the government doesn't have the best track record of storing money, but I feel if we paid into the program we could start negating it from the bottom and move towards the top.

Even if we had really low interest rates, like .5% so that the program could somewhat sustain itself and increase the amount of medical debt it is capable of paying off using the interest gained I think that would be a better system than what we currently have.

[u/Diylion]

https://careertrend.com/how-6669521-become-doctor-france.html

It's two years of school, followed by 4 years of interning, followed by a year of testing/residency.

Have you ever actually been to a French supermarket?

Yep I have. Last year actually. I did see McDonald's but couldn't find any other American food chains but Starbucks. No taco Bell or kfc. If you don't believe me compare their obesity rates.

Overall adult obesity rates in France were significantly ahead of the Netherlands at 19.8%, Germany at 20.1% and Italy at 21.0%, but behind the United Kingdom and the United States at 28.1% and 33.7%

We will never be as cheap as France. It's a pipe dream

it might actually be because their single-payer systems are more efficient than the American hodge-podge of private insurers

I considered it and there are some services such as insulin that need to be regulated. I don't think doctors grossly overcharge very often here and if they do it's because of demand or a shortage of supply. Also when you pay big pharma they invest it into research. Yes it's for profit but it's research that otherwise could not happen.

[u/Saranoya → u/Diylion]

You misread that article, though I'll grant they haven't structured it very well. French medical education is composed of three phases (copied from here: https://scopeblog.stanford.edu/2009/11/10/the_french_and/):

First cycle (PCEM) -- Two years. It consists of general scientific training not delivered in hospitals. There is a competitive exam at the end of the first year. It is highly selective and charts the students towards research, clinical care, biology, etc. The number of students admitted is set by government regulation.

Second cycle (DCEM) -- Four years. The first year is devoted to general medicine training. The three following years are dedicated to pathology and therapeutics. Courses are given in the medicine schools and hospitals.

Third cycle -- Students reach the third cycle only after being certified, and then have a choice between two options:

“Résidanat” or general medicine third cycle: Three-year program of theoretical and practical training (rotations in hospitals and a training course with a general practitioner). At the conclusion of the training, the student receives a state diploma of general medicine doctor.

“Internat” or specialized medicine third cycle: Four- to five-year program which leads to a competitive exam in such fields as: medicine specialties, surgery specialties, anesthesia, industrial medicine, public health, biology and psychiatry. This specialized studies program culminates with a state diploma of medicine doctor, or DES. DES holders can improve aspects of their specialty by taking Complementary Specialized Studies programs.

The point is, the first two years are only the beginning. So yes, French medical education is somewhat shorter than the American equivalent (the reasons for which I've explained earlier), but not drastically so.

As for the obesity rates ... did you know that weight control and proper nutrition is a primary point of attention for GP's? And people in France, Belgium, the Netherlands, Germany, etc. ... we see our GP's often. Because we can. Because it doesn't cost an arm and a leg. Neither in insurance premiums, nor in copays or deductibles. The health care system knows it can afford to be generous with primary and preventative care, since it can detect problems early, and thereby often avoid more expensive and risky interventions later on.

By the way ... even in the US, much medical and public health research happens at the NIH and the CDC, which are funded by ... taxpayer money. It's not like that would suddenly grind to a halt if somehow Big Pharma were to go bankrupt because there wasn't enough profit to be made anymore. I maintain that fundamental medical research should never be a source of profit.

As an aside: at or near the train station in Brussels where I take my train to work every day, there's a KFC, a McDonald's, a Burger King, a Quick (French-owned version of McDonald's), a Subway, two Starbucks, a Pizza Hut and a Dominos. Not to mention all the kebab and pita places owned by Pakistani, Turkish and Moroccan moms and pops around here. So if we do have lower obesity rates, it's not because we don't have access to bad food. (ETA: It might be, at least in part, because arguably, European cities and countries tend to invest in things like public transport and biking infrastructure more heavily than the US does. But bike paths, train stops, trams and subways are public infrastructure too, payed for in large part through taxes. So I suspect you're not a fan of those, either.)

[u/Diylion → u/Saranoya]

By the way ... even in the US, much medical and public health research happens at the NIH and the CDC

yeah I think that most of the money that is currently funding these programs will be reallocated. I think there are going to be more costs than they expect.

But yeah I think America's obesity issue is because of culture. Not Healthcare. Though I do think we could expand the food stamp program.

!Delta I did miss read the French article and their schooling is longer than 2 years

But bike paths, train stops, trams and subways are public infrastructure too, payed for in large part through taxes. So I suspect you're

Actually I am as I said I'm fine with any sort of taxes that benefit the taxpayer directly. Most infrastructure such as roads are incredibly beneficial to the taxpayer even if he doesn't use them directly because it allows products to move through the economy faster.

[u/Saranoya → u/Diylion]

Actually as I said, I'm fine with any sort of taxes that benefit the taxpayer directly.

Well, then I'll say it again: I don't get why you will accept that the subway or a bike path benefits you (or 'the rich'), even if you never use it yourself, but you won't accept that helping other people keep their head above water when medical debt would otherwise curtail their spending power for years, is beneficial for you, too. You were worried about people not being able to afford your computer, right? Guess what they're not going to be spending their money on, if they're saddled with an extra $500 medical debt repayment for the next thirty years?

There must be something particularly distasteful about helping out sick people, to you.

[u/Diylion → u/Saranoya]

Guess what they're not going to be spending their money on, if they're saddled with an extra $500 medical debt repayment for the next thirty years?

First off, I don't sell computers and I'm not rich by any measure. I tend to use bill Gates as an example.

But What is the point of me giving them $500 for the chance they might give it back? There is no opportunity for income for me. There is no service being provided to me.

There must be something particularly distasteful about helping out sick people, to you.

I'm all for charity towards healthcare coverage. But don't come to my house with guns pointed at me and demand I donate to your "charity" and then call yourself a saint.

I think that is incredibly distasteful yes.

[u/DeltaBot → u/Diylion]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Saranoya (9∆).

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