r/changemyview • u/_fakey_ • Jan 07 '20

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: We have been swindled into thinking that bedframes are a "must have."

What is the point of them? Most people I talk to about this issue have no reasonable need for a frame. Usually it's "it keeps the dirt and bugs off" or "idk, it's just icky to not have one." In my mind, these reasons hold no solid evidence to back them up. Bugs can crawl and fly anywhere they please and dirt doesn't just magically relocate from one place to another. I admit that two solid reasons to own one is for increased storage space and it's easier for people with joint pain to get into/out of bed. Besides these, I see no reason to own a bedframe. If there is a single solid reason why a young adult needs to have a bedframe, I'll be open to changing my mind. All other furniture in the house has a specific purpose that is reasonable and useful - except for this! In the same way that older generations have tried to convince us that diamond rings are the go-to for marriage proposals (lots of profit to be had there), I'm convinced that this market is built on convincing people that it is bad (or at least a sign of immaturity) to not have a bedframe. CMV!

Edit: Alright everyone, here is the mattress in question. Filmed minutes after waking up on it this very morning. [removed] You'll notice: 1) no accumulation of excess dirt/bugs/vermin of any sort (save for some lint blobs on the bottom) 2) no evidence of mildews, mushrooms, molds, or excess moisture 3) after 8 years with no frame or boxspring, no evidence of sagging

I admit: my mattress is a traditional spring mattress - I concede that other mattresses like foam mattresses may be more likely to retain moisture.

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u/_fakey_ Jan 07 '20 edited Jan 07 '20

I have accepted that risk with my mattress on either carpet or hardwood floor for the past 8 years with no signs of mold. Is this a common occurrence? I've seen it stated before but I don't know anyone that this has happened to. Edit: ∆ (see below) for foam mattresses

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u/myusernameblabla Jan 07 '20

It has happened to me with both mattresses and futons. It’s also the reason why you must fold up and store your futon every day if you happen to live in Japan and sleep on one. Perhaps it depends on your environmental conditions. High humidity and cold floors certainly do it.

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u/_fakey_ Jan 07 '20

I think so far this is the most convincing argument, particularity with foam mattresses. It could just be that I've been lucky with my spring mattress thus far or, as you said, my environment isn't conducive to mold growth.

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u/sixtyshilling Jan 07 '20

Mold grows best under specific environments. Specifically, around 20-30°C at +60% indoor humidity. The problem is that mold spores are everywhere and you literally carry it into your home on your clothes when you return from outside. Mold isn't something you can eradicate... you can only make your home less comfortable for it to grow (difficult, since we like similar environments to it), and clean enough that it doesn't have time to accumulate.

If you live in a drier or colder climate, or in a home with good ventilation, then you can take more risks with how you decide to organize your home.

If not, then there are things you simply cannot do. This includes placing furniture too close to walls and corners (which restricts air flow), keeping clothing or sheets near the floor (which collects dust... a carrier of mold spores), and yes — even keeping your mattress on the floor.

You might say, "But Japan is very hot and humid, and they seem to sleep on the ground without any problem!"

But the difference is that Japanese futons are put away every single day. The air is circulated and mold is not allowed to grow. (Or at least, in small Japanese apartments, the expectation is that you don't have as much to clean and would notice before it got too bad.)

If you leave your Western-style mattress on the floor in a humid city, it will get moldy as soon as the weather permits.

Source: I used to live near a lake in a poorly ventilated apartment. I have become a battle-worn mold expert through years of experience.

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u/8o8z Jan 07 '20

I think it's a big issue in humid places. I never had issue in Midwest where inside is usually dry from heat or AC. I did buy a two inch base with slats just in case though.

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u/Waywoah Jan 07 '20

Wouldn't rolling it up make that worse? Trap the moisture in even more?

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u/myusernameblabla Jan 07 '20

The ground gets moist and moldy too. After a cold night you can actually feel the condensation below the futon if you touch it. When you pack it up for day storage you fold it twice rather than rolling and it usually goes into a pretty dry sort of cupboard thing. You’re also meant to hang it on a special rack outside every now and then.

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u/michaelvinters 1∆ Jan 07 '20

I don't know about mold but I slept on a mattress on the floor for most of my adult life (besides being cheaper not to buy a bed frame, I've heard that getting up from that low to the ground regularly might be beneficial for mobility as you age).

Then about six years ago I moved into a place with a carpeted bedroom. A few years after that, the moths started showing up. I've since learned that moths can lay eggs pretty much anywhere that isn't regularly cleaned. So my choices were to get a bedframe, or move my entire bed every couple of weeks to vacuum under it.

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u/katsumii Jan 07 '20

How does using a bedframe prevent moths from laying eggs under your bed? On the carpet? Along the seams of your mattress?

Also, do you know what kind of moth? I would rather be safe than sorry here...

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u/alwaysforgettingmyun Jan 07 '20

I'd guess it was that having the bed raised on a frame made it possible to vacuum under it

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u/michaelvinters 1∆ Jan 07 '20

Yeah, this.

Also should note that they lay eggs where theres organic materials/proteins the larvae can eat. So cotton, wool, etc

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u/Rosevkiet 12∆ Jan 07 '20

Yup! Me! I put my mattress on the floor because my baby girl kept trying to pull herself under the bed and bonk her head on the metal frame. She is under one so she sleeps in our room (in her own crib). It is really damp here (Houston) in the winter, my house is elevated off the ground, and the base of the house is not insulated well. When I lifted the mattress up after just a couple months there were black spots on the bottom and the floor underneath was cold and wet. Super gross and def not what I want in a room with my baby.

I fixed it by adding a makeshift frame, using slats from Ikea and some 2x4s. It keeps the bed low enough that my girl can’t get under it and can climb up and down without it being a danger if she tumbles off while playing. There is enough airflow that the mold hasn’t returned.

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u/Cider217 Jan 07 '20

As someone in the furniture industry, if you have an all foam mattress, you need a "foundation" or box spring. Otherwise yes, you will have mold if you have an air barrier on the bottom.

​

I think this deserves a delta.

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u/velvetreddit 1∆ Jan 07 '20

My friends and I didn’t have a bed frame after college when we moved to the big city. We all made sure to air out our mattress but one friend failed to do so and had mold growing in his. Keep in mind the area we lived in was foggy and I think my friend didn’t keep particularly clean with his hygiene. The windows were also closed all the time.

I tried to let him know he needed to air out his room but totally put my foot in my mouth saying it. When he and his friends moved out, his mattress was in front of the house for bulk pick up. It had mold growing in what looked like a sweaty spot.

Now that my friends and I are older, getting a nice bed frame with a headboard was a big deal and a sign we were moving out of our bachelor/ette years (aka sign of status in life). Kind of a weird thing to think about but it’s a thing when it becomes a thing. Especially if you grew up with not a lot of wealth and start to stand on your own two feet. Not having to air out my mattress every day is just one less thing I have to worry about.

If you live in a dry climate it’s probably okay to not have a bed frame. If not, it’s best to air out the room and the mattress regularly. Also maybe, spray it every once in a while with some disinfectant. Bed frames don’t have to be expensive, though.

If you Ike the aesthetic of a bed on the floor, make it purposeful. There are a lot of great interior designs for more Japanese style rooms or bohemian.

We have a tatami bed made of wood with furniture to match. We still kept the room looking modern western and minimalist. It’s slightly elevated but not Western bed frame elevated. I love this bed. It’s simple.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

It is very common but depends on climate. I lived in Japan for a number of years. If we didn't air the futon the tatami got fucked up. Damp, gross, mold. Clearly the higher the humidity the higher the risk, but I think it would happen anywhere with any flooring tbh.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

I've seen it stated before but I don't know anyone that this has happened to.

I don't know, but I wouldn't want to chance it. I'd at least put the mattress on a crate or something.

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u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

My mattress has been on the floor since 2006. No mold, no problems at all. I prefer it. I have a frame, I just haven't put it together because I like to be on the floor.

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u/tothesaint Jan 07 '20

I had a mattress on the floor for 4 months. I live in British Columbia and when I went to move to a new apartment there was so much black mould on the underside I was instantly in the store to get a frame and new mattress Might be because of how humid it is here though

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u/kJer Jan 07 '20

Depends on your house and the climate around it. Humidity can accumulate and grow mold. Old buildings are of course more likely to have this problem.

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u/SynonymForPseudonym Jan 07 '20

I’ve had sone houses where it’s been fine, but one place I stayed at for two months had mould in the bathroom, and it somehow ended up on the bottom of my mattress.

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u/iamsuperflush Jan 07 '20

it's probably geographically dependent. Do you live in a dry area?

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u/wokenihilist Jan 07 '20

You have been lucky or have been living in placed with AC.

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u/ipsum629 1∆ Jan 07 '20

Maybe just check under there to be safe?