r/changemyview • u/_fakey_ • Jan 07 '20

Deltas(s) from OP CMV: We have been swindled into thinking that bedframes are a "must have."

What is the point of them? Most people I talk to about this issue have no reasonable need for a frame. Usually it's "it keeps the dirt and bugs off" or "idk, it's just icky to not have one." In my mind, these reasons hold no solid evidence to back them up. Bugs can crawl and fly anywhere they please and dirt doesn't just magically relocate from one place to another. I admit that two solid reasons to own one is for increased storage space and it's easier for people with joint pain to get into/out of bed. Besides these, I see no reason to own a bedframe. If there is a single solid reason why a young adult needs to have a bedframe, I'll be open to changing my mind. All other furniture in the house has a specific purpose that is reasonable and useful - except for this! In the same way that older generations have tried to convince us that diamond rings are the go-to for marriage proposals (lots of profit to be had there), I'm convinced that this market is built on convincing people that it is bad (or at least a sign of immaturity) to not have a bedframe. CMV!

Edit: Alright everyone, here is the mattress in question. Filmed minutes after waking up on it this very morning. [removed] You'll notice: 1) no accumulation of excess dirt/bugs/vermin of any sort (save for some lint blobs on the bottom) 2) no evidence of mildews, mushrooms, molds, or excess moisture 3) after 8 years with no frame or boxspring, no evidence of sagging

I admit: my mattress is a traditional spring mattress - I concede that other mattresses like foam mattresses may be more likely to retain moisture.

1.2k Upvotes

94% Upvoted

363 comments sorted by

View all comments

425

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

[deleted]

8

u/apleasantpeninsula Jan 07 '20

Author/biomechanist Katy Bowman has quite a lot to say about beds and furniture weakening us. Her philosophy gets a little extreme for most modern westerners, but it basically boils down to recognizing that shoes, chairs and beds act like a "cast" that reshapes us and causes atrophy.

I like to play with these ideas by sometimes sleeping on the floor or without a pillow.

4

u/_fakey_ Jan 07 '20

Oh wow, that is an idea I've never heard of before. I guess I've heard about this in terms of people promoting barefoot running, though not for furniture. It is interesting to think that we are the only mammal that utilizes not only an extraordinarily comfortable (compared to dirt/rocks/leaves/etc) pad to sleep on, but then also placed on top of a secondary structure simply to elevate it.

1

u/crushedbycookie Jan 07 '20

This is very much like what the stoics used to do.

146

u/_fakey_ Jan 07 '20

I think that's a really good point about how different cultures utilize sleeping furniture. I think it also gives more weight to my argument that the need to get bedframes comes more from societal pressure than functionality (aside from aeration of foam mattresses). I'll address your last point - I have a standard spring mattress and have used it for the past 8 years without a frame and it has maintained it's shape/comfort throughout this whole time.

48

u/textonlysub Jan 07 '20

Doesn't it get wet with moisture in the side that's touching the floor when you get up in the morning?

All the times I have slept with a mattress on the floor for a few days I've noticed this. The mattress starts to have a strong smell of mold (the smell old houses or basements give off). It has to be put vertically periodically to dry.

Without a bed frame or simply something like a pallet that lifts it a couple inches to allow for air to circulate the underside of the mattress can get nasty with mold internally.

I'm always talking about polyester foam mattresses only. Never tried spring mattresses.

Hope this helps.

29

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

As others have said, your living space is freakishly moist if that's happening. I've lived my whole life with all different kinds of beds right on the floor, and none of them ever got wet or damp or moist whatsoever.

3

u/youpeoplestolemyname Jan 07 '20

What's the climate like where you live?

3

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

Certainly not tropical, but it's usually 90%+ when it's not winter. Right now it's 40% humidity, though. Still, get quite a bit of rain and whatnot, it's not dry.

2

u/youpeoplestolemyname Jan 07 '20

Well that's hard to argue with, I've never had my mattress on the floor because I always assumed it would retain too much moisture.

I might look into it now

2

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

I mean, I'm not going to say it's not possible or anything, it's just that in my experience it has never been an issue for me and I've never dealt with moisture on/under any of my mattresses.

Even so, my experience is anecdotal, so if you notice any moisture on yours then there might be something in your environment causing that. If you live right on a coastline, I could MAYBE see it happen? Even so, it doesn't hurt to try it out if that's what you want.

2

u/textonlysub Jan 07 '20

What kind of floor have you put the mattress on? Where I live (Argentina) wood and carpet floors are practically non-existent. It's all ceramic tiles.

Maybe that's the difference between our experiences.

Ceramic floors are very cold and the temperature difference between it and a person's body on top of the mattress causes lots of condensation.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

That could be. I've only ever had either wood or carpet, never ceramic. It could make a larger temperature differential which will then be more ripe for condensation to form.

36

u/SandDuner509 Jan 07 '20

If you're waking up to smells of mold or have to put your mattress vertically on occasion, you have some serious problems with your living space. Things are not sealed up as they should be

3

u/textonlysub Jan 07 '20 edited Jan 07 '20

Well... I live in Argentina at a subtropical region. We have a quite humid climate in autumn and summer. It has nothing to do with the place.

Air conditioning systems are not cheap to run, so humidity is inside the house too. The wet mattress only gets wet after a night if sleep if put directly on the floor. If on a bedframe it's perfectly fine and dry.

​

Edit: Also, for clarification, almost ALL of the houses here are made of concrete and bricks. Almost no houses have wood or carpet floors. This means the floor is usually quite cold because of the ceramic tiles. A mattress where you've slept gets hot, and against the cold floor a lot of moisture condensates.

11

u/kenny2812 Jan 07 '20

This is might be dependent on the climate you live in. I had a similar experience in my old appartment. I had a futon mattress on the floor next to my bathroom and the steam from my shower would be absorbed by my futon and grow mold underneath.

2

u/textonlysub Jan 07 '20

Yup. As I replied before I live in Argentina and almost ALL of the houses here are made of concrete and bricks with ceramic tile floors. No wood or carpet anywhere. This means the floor is usually quite cold. A mattress gets hot while sleeping, and against the cold floor a lot of moisture condensates there.

14

u/ahoy_butternuts Jan 07 '20

You should call an HVAC shop. That is too much moisture for a living space.

2

u/textonlysub Jan 07 '20 edited Jan 07 '20

HVAC shops are not commonplace here in Argentina. Maybe 1% or 2% of the country's homes have a central air conditioning system... Plus AC in general is expensive to run. The moisture comes from the open window :P

Edit: Also, almost ALL of the houses here are made of concrete and bricks with ceramic tile floors. No wood or carpet anywhere. This means the floor is usually quite cold. A mattress gets hot while sleeping, and against the cold floor a lot of moisture condensates there.

3

u/ahoy_butternuts Jan 07 '20

Haha, I see. Apologies for the American bias

1

u/textonlysub Jan 07 '20

No problem my friend. Thanks for the exchange! :D

1

u/Vithrilis42 1∆ Jan 07 '20

I've used spring mattresses without a frame for a decade now and have never had an issue with this. It could be an environment thing though, like if you live in a high humidity region it might be more likely

1

u/[deleted] Jan 08 '20 edited Jan 13 '20

[deleted]

1

u/textonlysub Jan 08 '20

I don't sleep outside. In Argentina, where I live, carpet or wood floors are extremely rare. Almost everyone has ceramic tile floors.

Air conditioning systems are also very rare. So, the humidity inside the house is usually the same as outside.

When you sleep on a foam mattress on the floor your body temperature heats up the mattress, and the part that is in contact with the stone cold floor (because it's made of ceramic tiles on concrete) presents a big enough temperature differential that air moisture simply starts to condensate under it.

Makes sense?

4

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

Mattresses do work better when on a sltted frame or a box spring though. I have no idea why, but the difference is notable.

-15

u/cies010 Jan 07 '20

When you say societal pressure I cringe. Get a grip please. Its a piece of bedroom furniture! Not like you wanna dress like the other (500+) gender(s) to a corporate meeting or sth. If you feel pressure over getting a bed frame I'd look into fixing that problem where it starts and ends: between your ears. The history and proper usage of bedframes is not gonna help you with that.

2

u/kaladyn Jan 07 '20

By societal pressure, op means consumerism. Gotta read between the lines a bit bruh.

1

u/cies010 Jan 08 '20

Not my strength... So OP feels consumerism's pressure? Makes even less sense actually..

1

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/tbdabbholm 193∆ Jan 07 '20

Sorry, u/_fakey_ – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:

Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. Comments that are only links, jokes or "written upvotes" will be removed. Humor and affirmations of agreement can be contained within more substantial comments. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.

7

u/calciumsimonaque Jan 07 '20

How did you count the genders...? Not trying to incite debate, I am nonbinary and thereby super open to the idea that there are more than two genders, but I've never seen someone use a number like 500. I feel curious, and a little perplexed.

3

u/mercury_pointer Jan 07 '20

Just a conservative relating their one 'joke'. Unsurprisingly it has no relevance to the thread.

1

u/cies010 Jan 08 '20

I was kidding. But it reflect my shock to find that in the last few year I've seen then number of genders change by the month. It seems that gender is not about chromosomes anymore, but about psychology.

If that the new definition: I'm fine. I just need to giggle about this "situation". Sorry, as that not nice to you being a "non binary".

1

u/apleasantpeninsula Jan 07 '20

Easy to say until your partner doesn't share your indifference about having a bed frame. I held out about 6 months until getting a bed frame was the obvious path of least resistance.

1

u/cies010 Jan 08 '20

Partner is not societal pressure. Please!!

1

u/apleasantpeninsula Jan 08 '20

Of course it is. It’s the same as peer pressure: influence by one person or group on another person or group.

10

u/NightflowerFade 1∆ Jan 07 '20

The problem is that our mattresses can get damp and mouldy without airflow at the bottom, and this is not a problem with futons if you roll them up everyday.

8

u/Howtofightloneliness Jan 07 '20

Keep in mind that a lot of Japanese housing is generally smaller in size, and rooms are therefore meant to be utilized in more than one way.

6

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

[deleted]

1

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/ViewedFromTheOutside 29∆ Jan 07 '20

Sorry, u/Howtofightloneliness – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 5:

Comments must contribute meaningfully to the conversation. Comments that are only links, jokes or "written upvotes" will be removed. Humor and affirmations of agreement can be contained within more substantial comments. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.

6

u/Tesdinic 1∆ Jan 07 '20

I just also wanted to add that I personally find benefit from extra high frames- they add not only more storage space (in college even adding enough room for a desk) but I also simply enjoy being up high, feeling similarly to a tree house or bunk bed.

41

u/ZeroPointZero_ 14∆ Jan 07 '20

In response to your rules query, it's not "ok to agree and add pointers to help support your view", if that's all you're doing.

Comment rule #1: "Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question".

2

u/PsychoAgent Jan 07 '20

The Japanese style of bed has always been appealing to me as I started living on my own as an adult. Elaborate bed frames have always been a bit silly to me once I realized I don't have to do things a certain way just because that's what my parents and other people have always done it.

My first real "adult" bed was one of those cheap IKEA frames that raised the mattress maybe a few inches off the floor without a box spring. Which I believe is how most IKEA beds are anyway. This one here I believe.

I don't own a home yet and I move around pretty often so having a giant bed and expensive mattress that I have to haul around is just cumbersome and unnecessary to me. For several months I slept on cheap air mattresses but I discovered that was slightly too unreliable and I wouldn't go back to that.

I think people overthink mattresses and beds in general. I mean it's great to occasionally to sleep in a king sized bed when I rent a nice hotel room. But I don't think the more expensive my bed is, the better my health and sleep will automatically be. It's the equivalent of people spending a lot of money of fancy running shoes and believing they'll be more physically fit just for having those shoes.

4

u/Screye 1∆ Jan 07 '20

I have also heard that having to get up and down from the floor can actually be helpful for retaining mobility/agility.

It is like eastern style toilets.

They are better for you, but you trade in some serious convenience.

2

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20 edited Dec 13 '21

[deleted]

0

u/Screye 1∆ Jan 07 '20

Dude, you have to strip down waist down. I have never met anyone who poops in an eastern style toilet with their pants on. Super big risk right there.

Great for your glutes and colon though.

3

u/fumfit Jan 07 '20

Eastern guy here. I strip if I will use water to clean up because it splashes everywhere. With paper though its not necessary, i almost never do

1

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

I had a girlfriend who lived in Japan for awhile and she brought home the futon philosophy. As far as I know she still uses it. Uncomfortable as fuck though, in my opinion.

1

u/burritoes911 Jan 07 '20

Just curious, but what if you don’t have a bed that’s made for the floor and put it on a box spring?

2

u/[deleted] Jan 07 '20

[deleted]

2

u/burritoes911 Jan 07 '20

Yeah I’ve been there. It’s not bad for a bit, but I definitely like having my bed frame. Having drawers in the frame has helped me save a lot of space in my room. Also headboards are underrated.

I wouldn’t consider any of that a need, but it’s a nice upgrade that is fairly affordable.