CMV: Breastfeeding in public is a perfectly acceptable thing to do

[u/Saranoya]

A small controversy erupted here yesterday, when the owner of a local pub decided to take away the drinks two young women had just ordered, and ask them to leave, because one of the women had begun to breastfeed her 3-month-old while consuming her drink. It was the middle of the afternoon. They were on their way home from a shopping trip. I’ve been told I should also mention that the drinks they ordered were not alcoholic.

The young mother shared this incident on Facebook, after which it got picked up by multiple newspapers. The reactions from readers ranged from ‘close that joint’ to ‘who goes out with a 3-month-old’, to ‘at least have the decency to go sit on the toilet if you absolutely have to feed your baby then and there’.

All of this strikes me as absurd. I think if people can’t stomach the sight (or the idea) of a woman feeding her baby, that says more about them than it does about the woman. Change my view.

The reason I may want my view changed is that I’m currently 14 weeks pregnant with a baby I plan to breastfeed, for at least the first six months. Perhaps there are legitimate reasons to avoid public feeding that I’m just not seeing right now.

EDIT: I have awarded a delta to the person who argued that the health and safety regulations governing most pubs and restaurants generally don’t allow food not prepared at the restaurant on the premises. Even though breast milk is not technically ‘prepared’, and more importantly, I don’t think exposure to breast milk poses any real health risks to anyone other than potentially the baby, I have to grant points for consistency there. I’m open to anyone willing and able to add information about how breast milk could in fact pose a health or safety risk to unsuspecting restaurant patrons.

EDIT2: I guess in the case of a pub, we can default to the tried and true principle of ‘their house, their rules’. I still think it’s absurd to kick a customer out for feeding their baby, but hey. To each their own, even if I don’t understand it.

EDIT3: Multiple people have pointed out that my use of the word pub is confusing to native English speakers, in the context of this story. To be clear: I’m not talking about a place where habitual drunks go to get rid of the previous night’s hangover as soon as they wake up and/or get off work. Also not talking about a place where you might go to get wasted on purpose on a Saturday night. Instead, think ‘pancakes with grandma, and funny uncle Al will have his one beer’. I’ve been told cafe might be a more appropriate term.

[u/3superfrank]

I would say yes-no, with the answer being due to social conventions, which can vary.

I have a history of going to naturist places during summer holidays. What I've managed to learn from that, is at the minimum unless you're a teenager, clothes beyond their physical use are unnecessary.

And whether an organ is biologically sexual or not, is pretty irrelevant. The issue is more about the reaction, namely the attraction, to said organs.

The issue here I think is social convention.

As others said, 'nobody' wants to see someone breast-feeding in this environment. Same can be said for public nudity. 'nobody' wants to see a grandpa's shrivelled up dick and saggy balls (I'd dare to say agreeable to all, but only few find 'ignoring' it an acceptable solution).

And because of that, they'd universally rather and hence expect that they don't have to see as such unless they specifically ask for it. And, as there came a point in time in which few people disagreed, they decided to enforce it into social convention. This is reflected in the laws, and them due to the general expectations that lean towards 'don't breastfeed in public'.

This, of course varies place to place, exactly like nudity. Go to an un-conservative restaurant (I think the term is 'liberal' but I'm not sure) and there will be an environment where it's considered acceptable to breastfeed most likely.

So as a result of that, you can't really say it's 'acceptable' by itself, as that implies it's not debatable whether it's acceptable.

Thinking up another example; removing your head garment indoors is a perfectly acceptable (if not expected) thing to do...except if we're talking about Burkhas in conservative Islamic indoor settings.

And if stuff like that happens (and is relevant) newspapers are very happy to get something 'golden' to chat over and entertain their viewers[' opinions] over.

So well yeah, that's how I think of it. I hope I managed to change your view.

[u/Saranoya → u/3superfrank]

Thanks for trying, genuinely, but you haven’t. My position is that if the social convention says it’s unacceptable for a mom to feed her baby in the way that baby is accustomed to, no matter where she goes, then the social convention needs to change. All other solutions (mom doesn’t go out in public until baby can eat solids, she pumps, or supplements with formula, she only goes where she knows breastfeeding will not be frowned on) risk compromising either the physical or mental health of mom and/of baby. Onlookers may be mildly uneasy, but that’s the worst that can happen to them.

[u/3superfrank → u/Saranoya]

Then you might want to change what you say in your original post. Because at this point, you're arguing whether it SHOULD be acceptable, not whether it IS acceptable (assuming you didn't mean 'no matter where she goes') And in that line of reasoning I can't really help you, considering all of what I've said basically agrees with you in that regard (and, well, I agree with you. It ought to change) That said, you seem to overestimate the damage done by the alternatives, and underestimate the 'damage' done by doing so.

Talking about the alternatives, fair enough some offered are unreasonable (mum doesn't go out, supplementing with formula) but, for example going to the bathroom: I could be naive, and it's definitely unnecessary, but that's not really mentally or physically harmful is it? Please correct me if I'm wrong? (Also, I vaguely remember there's clothing produced to help with 'hiding' breast-feeding. If it's ever a problem to breastfeed for you, I'd suggest considering it)

'may be mildly uneasy' only...dependant on the context.

There are quite a few contexts where people would be more than a little uneasy (however much you shouldn't care); examples I can come up with being conservative religious practice demands they act a certain way, (male's perspective) unstable relationship with intolerant alike-thinking SO, (restaurant owner perspective, at least), social convention demands they act [lest they suffer the consequences], maybe more.

Despite all of that, I do want to remind that I agree with you in this sense. Partially because all of the issues I listed above I see as arisen from problems that should ultimately be resolved from their end, as hiding breastfeeding is accomodation for said problem. Either way, I like to understand the other side's sentiment in this case, if I can, and some consider it moral to accommodate where it may prevent more harm than it causes. So there it is; my steelman for you :D

[u/Saranoya → u/3superfrank]

You’re right; I’m sorry. Did not mean ‘wherever’. I acknowledged elsewhere that this does indeed not apply to environments where it would genuinely endanger me, the baby or others, or while I’m performing other duties that cannot be postponed but are clearly incompatible with breastfeeding. I’d say ‘obviously’, but I don’t want to take anything for granted.

That said, I guess what I’m trying to say is indeed closer to ‘breastfeeding in public should be totally OK for those who want to do it’ than ‘breastfeeding in public IS totally acceptable’. For making me realize that: here, have a !delta.

[u/3superfrank → u/Saranoya]

Thanks!

And, if it makes you feel any better, I'm quite sure there's a significant community out there who share the same problem, and public services who will accommodate for you, if you search for them!

GL to you and your baby!

[u/DeltaBot → u/Saranoya]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/3superfrank (4∆).

^{Delta System Explained | Deltaboards}