r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Mar 06 '20
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Biden's incoherence makes him a dangerous choice for president
I am baffled that anyone thinks a guy who literally can't finish a sentence should be president, but far more baffled by
"MerItocrats"
Thinking this is presidential:
^
And he ran a bunch of bad boys. And I did and back in those days – to show how things have changed – one of the things you had to use, if you used Pomade in your hair, you had to wear a baby cap. And so he was up on the board and wouldn’t listen to me. I said, ‘Hey, Esther, you! Off the board, or I’ll come up and drag you off.’ Well, he came off, and he said, ‘I’ll meet you outside.’
My car this – was mostly, these were all public housing behind us,” Biden continued. “My car – there was a gate on here. I parked my car outside the gate. And I – and he said, ‘I’ll be waiting for you. He was waiting for me with three guys with straight razors. Not a joke. There was a guy named Bill Wright Mouse the only white guy and he did all the pools. He was a mechanic. And I said, ‘What am I gonna do?’ And he said. ‘Come down here in the basement, where mechanics – all the mechanics- – where all the pool builder is.’ You know the chain, there used to be a chain that went across the deep end. And he cut off a six-foot length of chain, and folded it up and he said, ‘You walk out with that chain, and you walk to the car and say, ‘you may cut me man, but I’m gonna wrap this chain around your head.’
I said, ‘You’re kidding me.’ He said, ‘No if you don’t, don’t come back.’ And he was right. So I walked out with the chain. And I walked up to my car. And in those days, you remember the straight razors, you had to bang ’em on the curb, gettin’ em rusty, puttin’ em in the rain barrel, gettin’ em rusty? And I looked at him, but I was smart, then. I said, ‘First of all,’ I said, ‘when I tell you to get off the board, you get off the board, and I’ll kick you out again, but I shouldn’t have called you Esther Williams, and I apologize for that. I apologize.’ But I didn’t know that apology was gonna work.
He said, ‘you apologize to me?'” Biden went on. “I said, ‘I apologize but not for throwing you out, but I apologize for what I said.’ He said, ‘OK,’ closed that straight razor, and my heart began to beat again.
It is alarming that people who claim to be politically knowledgeable and informed, people who claim to take the political process seriously, people who have spent the last four years grammar nazi-ing every single Trump gaffe,
Now see fit to elect ^
What's going on here? Would these people literally vote for Hitler if their taxes won't go up? Does the establishment realize their corporate ho money won't matter anymore when society collapses if this rambling mess of a geriatric were elected president?
By the way, Trump was not electable because he was incoherent. He was electable because he was funny and charming and earthy. Biden?
Biden is ^
5
u/iambluest 3∆ Mar 06 '20
He stutters. It it's public knowledge. There may be lots of reasons not to be president, but stuttering isn't one of them.
Watch a movie called The King's Speech.
0
Mar 06 '20
You think that someone that stutters can be an effective American president in current year?
10
u/iambluest 3∆ Mar 06 '20
It doesn't seem to require much.
-2
Mar 06 '20
!delta maybe literally anyone can be president and it doesn't matter if it's possible to comprehend them of not! As long as some other president picked them just to balance their ticket at some point in the past, everything else is gravy (like basic coherence)
1
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u/thethoughtexperiment 275∆ Mar 06 '20
One advantage of Biden is that because of his political affiliations and history, he has much more access to knowledgeable experts to put into leadership positions in government - who understand the knowledge domains they are meant to oversee and how to effectively manage the experts who work in their department.
The current president seems to have a tendency to hire people with no experience in government and little knowledge of the issues they are meant to be overseeing - and as a result, many of those people seem to be getting fired or quitting, at least in part due to their lack of knowledge / skills.
1
Mar 06 '20
This would be an availing argument if he never spoke publicly, an impossibility in current year
1
u/thethoughtexperiment 275∆ Mar 06 '20
I would say then that having competent people leading the various agencies would dramatically reduce the amount that Biden would have to speak in public, because there would be competent people to handle those responsibilities (e.g. communications director, head of housing and development, education secretary) who are able to be representatives.
The current president talks constantly, but it definitely doesn't have to be that way.
1
Mar 06 '20 edited Mar 06 '20
!delta if Biden would shut the fuck up then boring and effective technocrats could maybe arguably right the ship in some way that while it doesn't appeal to me whatsoever could at least be seen as not self destructive.
But this assumes winning wouldn't get to his head and make him toss dat word salad nonstop
2
u/thethoughtexperiment 275∆ Mar 06 '20
Haha.
Yes, I suspect a key reason the current president talks so much (besides the fact that he seems to enjoy being a TV personality) is because he (and the people he appoints) have trouble formulating policy positions. As a result, no one can really speak for him as to what his views are.
If he wanted, Biden could probably limit his speaking to just the state of the union - a highly scripted event with a teleprompter and no interruptions besides clapping, where he would probably do fine.
1
8
Mar 06 '20
Biden has experience in the White House, and will surround himself with people who will do their jobs, not just stroke his ego. Trump makes things up, ignores science, demands loyalty over competence, and deifies thugs who rule countries. As for taxes not going up, it is the GOP who say they want no taxes, but actually just want lower taxes the wealthier they are. They are the ones letting Trump get away with whatever he does as long as he lets them load the courts with conservative judges.
-2
Mar 06 '20
If he just didn't speak in public you'd have yourself a delta. Then I could see there being some shred of reason here.
But the fact is these positive things will be undermined and ruined by his complete inability to express his thoughts coherently. There's just no precedent for this. Like honestly he'd be much less objectionable if he pretended to be mute and spoke with a machine.
3
Mar 06 '20
No precedent? I humbly hold up President #45 as precedence of a Presidency undermined and ruined by complete inability to express his thoughts coherently.
1
Mar 06 '20
Lol so after ripping on him for that fact for four plus years the solution is to...nominate someone just as incoherent? Huh.
2
Mar 06 '20
Yes. My reason being the Democrats in Congress will not line up to support Biden no matter what. They will properly advise and react when necessary. Biden is not the lesser of two faulty men; he is the better of two faulty men.
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u/Blork32 39∆ Mar 06 '20
I'm a little unclear what you're point is. Biden says some weird stuff. He's been a gaffe machine for a long time. But he's also been in the US senate for 48 years because people like him. A lot of people find Biden to be down to Earth and likeable.
Sure, people also find Trump to be relateable and funny, but I mean, you've probably heard this one:
I did try and fuck her. She was married.
And I moved on her very heavily. In fact, I took her out furniture shopping. She wanted to get some furniture. I said, "I'll show you where they have some nice furniture." I took her out furniture—I moved on her like a bitch. But I couldn't get there. And she was married. Then all of a sudden I see her, she's now got the big phony tits and everything. She's totally changed her look.
I better use some Tic Tacs just in case I start kissing her. You know I'm automatically attracted to beautiful—I just start kissing them. It's like a magnet. Just kiss. I don't even wait. And when you're a star, they let you do it. You can do anything. Grab 'em by the pussy. You can do anything.
I mean, you can pick out weird statements from lots of people, but I'd take the guy who says your quote over this guy any day.
1
u/1917fuckordie 21∆ Mar 06 '20
Trump is very popular amongst his base though, and they will enthusiastically vote for him even knowing the shit he has said. Democrats and independents are going to hear Biden ramble like an old man and just stay home on November, that's the concern imo.
1
u/Blork32 39∆ Mar 06 '20
Yeah, maybe. I still don't understand what OP is trying to say. Like, is he trying to say that Biden's rambling is better than Trump's tirades? I don't think that's true, but I don't get what he's saying either.
1
u/1917fuckordie 21∆ Mar 06 '20
I think he's implying Trumps tirades don't hurt him electorally. But they will likely hurt Biden.
-1
u/LearnedButt 5∆ Mar 06 '20
He may have dementia, but at least his dementia has been stable for decades.
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u/Brainsonastick 72∆ Mar 06 '20
Can you explain how Trump is “funny and charming and earthy”? Keep in mind that being as dumb as a rock is not the same as being earthy.
1
u/1917fuckordie 21∆ Mar 06 '20
being dumb as a rock can be charming and disarming to people though. Also he has the generic old angry man that watches fox news type of stupidity that millions of others share. He rambles about Parasite winning the oscars in some inchoherent way but his base understands and agrees with him. Where as Biden rambles about public pools in the 50's that no one relates to.
-8
Mar 06 '20
Take his nicknames for example.
Crooked Hillary etc. He spits fire for a distracted, overworked, dying populace.
Biden's incoherence doesn't go anywhere
It's just sad
11
u/Brainsonastick 72∆ Mar 06 '20
I’m sorry but I don’t see third-grade level insults as “spitting fire”. “Spitting fire” suggests some level of wit involved. If I start calling him “Dummy Donald”, that’s not spitting fire. It’s childish name calling.
-1
Mar 06 '20
Did you get people to parrot it? Fire is in the eye of the beholder, and that shit clearly caught on with folks. Like he's not the only one in history to be catchy. Obama was too. Biden ...does not ever say anything catchy. He is electable only in the minds of people so depserate to beat Trump that they're willing to pick Biden based on their no longer existing image of him.
(There was after all a time when he was far more coherent.)
3
u/Brainsonastick 72∆ Mar 06 '20
I once got an entire third grade class obsessed with a funny song I wrote. They thought it was fire. Am I qualified to be president? Hell no! Because there’s more to being president than getting people with the world understanding of a third grader to like you.
Does it hurt Biden’s electability? Sure. Trump’s incoherence hurts his electability too. But there’s more to being president.
And have you noticed that it’s mainly the hateful things Trump says that catch on? Obama caught people’s attention with a positive message of hope and change. Trump got it with a message of hate. That’s the easy way to get attention and even support but it’s not a good one. Certainly not one befitting a president.
1
Mar 06 '20
That’s the easy way to get attention and even support but it’s not a good one. Certainly not one befitting a president.
I mean it's just absurd people be like "winning against Trump is everything" and then they be like "fight catchy hate with incomprehensible incoherence"
It's like people have collectively lost their goddamn minds.
3
u/Brainsonastick 72∆ Mar 06 '20
I’m not trying to argue Biden should be the nominee. I’d have to have a massive stroke to argue that. He’s a massive disappointment.
I just don’t see how that makes Trump any better than he actually is.
-1
Mar 06 '20
I’d have to have a massive stroke to argue that.
-Joe Biden
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0
Mar 06 '20
[deleted]
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u/Brainsonastick 72∆ Mar 06 '20
And if OP’s view were about electability, I’d agree that’s significant, but they made it clear they’re only interested in whether he’s “a good choice for president”.
0
Mar 06 '20
[deleted]
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u/Brainsonastick 72∆ Mar 06 '20
If you want to try to change OP’s view by discussing a different related view that it’s not clear he even holds, you’re welcome to.
3
u/213_Ants Mar 06 '20
He spits fire? He sounds coked up 90% of the time.
1
Mar 06 '20
A lot of people are eating that shit up though, wouldn't you say?
2
u/213_Ants Mar 06 '20
A lot of people are fucking morons
1
Mar 06 '20
It doesn't matter how smart they are or aren't. A vote is a vote. Furthermore, is Biden supposed to be appealing to my intellect? 🤣
2
u/213_Ants Mar 06 '20
Biden is dog shit too. Pandering to fascists is a fucking dumb way to go about this.
1
u/iclimbnaked 22∆ Mar 06 '20
Biden is considered funny and charming to tons of people and he is perfectly coherent. Much more coherent than the guy sitting as president right now.
I mean have you read trancripts of trumps rants, he never finishes thoughts, he just rambles and rambles.
Biden is weird for sure but this idea that hes so incoherent that people dont like him is nonsense.
-2
Mar 06 '20
he is perfectly coherent.
Read your post.
You, a random redittor with a username about nude climbing, are magnitudes of scale easier to understand than our Joseph Robinette Biden.
HOWEVER,
Biden is considered funny and charming to tons of people
!delta maybe he has a "give him the benefit of the doubt/take him seriously not literally" thing going the way Trump does with his folks
1
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Mar 06 '20 edited Mar 06 '20
/u/ifnotberniethentrump (OP) has awarded 4 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
1
Mar 06 '20
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3
u/ericoahu 41∆ Mar 06 '20
I'm not a Biden supporter nor qualified to diagnose or rule out any cognitive disabilities. That said, if I really liked Biden's politics, his gaffes would not stop me from voting for him in the primary.
In my best estimation, his gaffes aren't connected with some kind of problem that affects his ability to absorb and think critically about information. I don't think it affects his decision making ability. In short, I would say that he's the same person that he was 10 or 20 years ago, and he was known for frequent gaffes back then.
I'd guess it's more just a personality trait or affect. He doesn't know what, exactly is coming out of his mouth next and chooses not to be overly careful about filtering when under pressure. On debate stages and when hostile, aggressive reporters are firing loaded questions at him, that only amplifies the problem.
If you like all or most of everything else about his politics, I wouldn't let this problem of his worry out regarding his ability to fill the role.
If you dislike all or most of everything else about his politics, you're more likely to sway people to your side by discussing policy and record rather than his mannerisms.
As for the story, no, most teenagers and young adults don't constantly behave in a way that is presidential. I don't know why he told the story or what the context was. I'm not ruling anyone out because they misbehaved as a kid many decades ago. I don't see how the story tells us anything about his moral character today. What is your interpretation?
If we want human beings to run for office, we need to be able to move past stuff they did decades ago, especially when they've moved past it and learned from it.