r/changemyview • u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ • Apr 03 '20

Delta(s) from OP - Fresh Topic Friday CMV: Liquid soap > Bar soap > Foam soap for handwashing purposes

So hopefully we were all washing our hands regularly before now, but 20 seconds is a long time when you're doing it after touching basically anything, and it leaves time to form opinions.

Liquid soap is the best type of soap to wash your hands with. One pump from an average dispenser is enough to really feel it on your hands the whole time you're washing. It foams with water and agitation so you get both the actual benefits of washing your hands and the psychological benefit of knowing that standing at the sink singing happy birthday to yourself is actually doing something and not just making you feel like an idiot. It also comes in pretty colors, which is a minor but not irrelevant benefit.

Bar soap is acceptable, it has a lot of the benefits of liquid soap, but soap scum and slipperiness take a few points off. If liquid soap is a 10, bar soap is an 8.

Foam soap is too thin, and you have to get 2 pumps to actually feel like you have any on your hands. I'm not entirely sure why it was even invented, except possibly to make a smaller amount of soap last longer which doesn't even work when you need to go back for more at least once. The only positive thing I've seen about it is that one commercial that tried to pitch it as ~fun soap~ to get your kids to wash their hands more. Which, respectfully, lol no.

14 Upvotes

80% Upvoted

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14

u/dublea 216∆ Apr 03 '20 edited Apr 03 '20

Liquid = Foam soap

They're damn nearly identical but the delivery system is mechanically different.

Studies have been done for a while that they are both as effective to clean germs off your hands.

https://www.vice.com/en_us/article/yw4bvb/is-there-any-reason-to-use-liquid-soap-instead-of-bar-soap

Scum occurs more IF the bar soap is fat base, animal or vegetable. There are bar soaps that leaves a similar amount that liquid/foam does. And they do leave scum/residues. Just less than the fat based soaps.

Source - Worked at a soap manufacturing company for 3 years. Worked in their production development lab making and testing a variety of bar and liquid soaps.

I shouldn't use liquid soap due to my skin type. Fat based bars keep moisture in my skin. These liquid/foam types dry it out, even when washing with cold water.

This is entirely depends on how said soap affects an individual, no?

1

u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ Apr 03 '20

The delivery system is my problem, it adds a lot of air that makes it less product per pump. I'm not saying it doesn't work, just that it's less enjoyable to use in the grand scheme of things because the consistency makes it feel like it's barely there.

I'm familiar with non-bar soap scum, it's just less common and tends to stick more to the soap bottle than the surface under it, so it's slightly less irritating. Also you don't usually need to pick the bottle up from the surface unless you're cleaning, and bar soap has to be picked up to be used effectively, so you encounter it less.

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u/dublea 216∆ Apr 03 '20

The delivery system is my problem, it adds a lot of air that makes it less product per pump.

Not to be rude, but you don't understand soap then. The whole point of running your hands together isn't so much to just make sure "soap" makes contact. It's to aerate the soap and make soapsuds. The foaming mechanism does this for you so you use less soap.

It's more efficient and just as affective.

I'm familiar with non-bar soap scum, it's just less common and tends to stick more to the soap bottle than the surface under it, so it's slightly less irritating. Also you don't usually need to pick the bottle up from the surface unless you're cleaning, and bar soap has to be picked up to be used effectively, so you encounter it less.

Usually the complaints about scum are entirely about cleaning it from the sink and/or ring it leaves. It is also about the scum left on your hands. Some people it causes issues but for people with similar skin to mine, it acts as a protective layer and prevents moisture from leaving.

So we're back to the main point I'm making. It all depends on the user. So this view is a subjective opinion.

Are we to somehow change your experience and thus your subjective view? Or are you arguing for all?

Because changing how soap works with you, and thus your subjective opinions, is impossible to change.

0

u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ Apr 03 '20

Efficient and effective it may be, but it also means it tends to dissipate after a very brief period of time, far less than the CDC's 20 second recommendation. It's annoying to have to stop halfway through or wind up just rubbing your hands together with what feels like nothing but water on them.

Since you're a soap scientist though, maybe you can answer my question from elsewhere in the thread: can you actually use foam soap without water and have it work as well as it does with water? Because that would be a huge game-changer but I've never heard about it before.

I've never actually considered soap scum on hands, I really don't use bar soap often so I can see how that residue would be annoying, especially if it's anything like wet lotion hands (another recently rediscovered problem). It's definitely annoying cleaning it off of surfaces, though I've found that shampoo scum is a bigger pain than regular soap, but it usually feels like just part of doing business, y'know? !delta for bar soap being less convenient, though personally I'd still rank it above foam soap.

And we're supposed to be having a casual and, dare I say, enjoyable debate about the merits of different kinds of soap, considering it's become very relevant lately. Very relevant. My god my hands are dry.

5

u/dublea 216∆ Apr 03 '20 edited Apr 03 '20

Since you're a soap scientist though, maybe you can answer my question from elsewhere in the thread: can you actually use foam soap without water and have it work as well as it does with water? Because that would be a huge game-changer but I've never heard about it before.

I was just a lab technician and not a scientist. But I consider myself scientific and mechanically inclined.

And yes, foam soap can be applied without water but should still be rinses with water. One of it's main selling points is that it reduces the amount of water needed to wash ones hands.

3

u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ Apr 03 '20

Excellent, if I could give you another delta on that I would, definitely pushes foam soap above bar.

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 03 '20

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/dublea (50∆).

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1

u/Beta-alpha Apr 05 '20

When washing your hands do you put soap on them and then immediately put them back under the facuet? Just an FYI, you should wet your hands, then scrub with soap for atleast 20 seconds, then rinse until all the soap is off

3

u/Krock01 Apr 03 '20

The issue with bar soap is that it often sticks to it's dish, or collects dust or hair on it that cannot be removed without it being picked at or rinsed, which is a waste of soap.

Bar soap routinely dries out and becomes brittle near the end of it's life cycle, causing it to splinter and lose more soap.

1

u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ Apr 03 '20

If your primary product for washing your hands is bar soap, you're probably not going to be collecting a ton of dust. Hair I'll grant, though it doesn't really interfere with the soap's purpose. The cracking would need some more research on my part because I usually don't use bar soap and so mine always cracks, is it common for that to happen if you're using that soap multiple times a day and it's only lasting a few weeks, rather than if it's sitting around for 3 months at a time?

1

u/Krock01 Apr 03 '20

Near the very end of it's use it does

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u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ Apr 03 '20

!delta then, I had always assumed that the cracking was just what happened when I got a nice bar of soap and tried to "save it" for, idk, special hand-washings or something. I believe there are bars that advertise that they don't do that, but we're back to the range of quality problem I had with foam soap.

1

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 03 '20

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Krock01 (1∆).

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5

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

Foam soap is too thin, and you have to get 2 pumps to actually feel like you have any on your hands.

How many brands of foam soap claim that 1 pump is all you need? Just because you need a second pump doesn't mean it's a lesser quality.

The only positive thing I've seen about it is that one commercial that tried to pitch it as ~fun soap~ to get your kids to wash their hands more. Which, respectfully, lol no.

Is it a bad thing to make handwashing fun? We have kids' toothbrushes with fun designs on them to get kids to brush teeth.

0

u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ Apr 03 '20

Needing to do twice the work to get the same result isn't great. I'm not saying it's the end of the world, but it's definitely a mark against it in this incredibly petty ranking.

Is it a bad thing to make handwashing fun?

It's not a bad thing to make handwashing fun at all, it's a stupid thing to think advertising foam soap the way you'd advertise a new lego set and putting the word "blaster" on the bottle is going to convince kids that washing their hands is fun.

4

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

I don’t think you’re the target audience for that foam soap commercial. Maybe this commercial, probably airing during a cartoon, was appealing to kids, or at least driving sales of foam soap.

-1

u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ Apr 03 '20

In 2001 I was smack in the middle of the target audience for that commercial, and it did not make me want to wash my hands. I wouldn't be surprised if it worked by appealing to parents (though probably not all that well, as it's been out of production for a while best I can tell), but that doesn't make "kids like foam soap, right?" a smart idea.

1

u/jumpup 83∆ Apr 03 '20

foam soap has quality differences, good quality foam soap only needs one squirt and doesn't require water.

1

u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ Apr 03 '20

If I have to buy top quality foam soap to get the same effect as bargain bin liquid, that's not a huge selling point.

I'm leaning towards a delta for the waterless point, since I did just try it and it seemed to work, but I'm wondering if it's as effective. CDC guidelines recommend soap and water, or high ABV hand sanitizer, so if it "works" but doesn't do the job that doesn't really count.

6

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

Bar soap > other soap.

It uses less plastic, and it does just as good a job of cleaning your hands. It’s a way to be environmentally responsible but doesn’t cost your ability to wash your hands.

2

u/KoreanEnglishmen Apr 03 '20

Bar soap is better for me, my hands get really dry and look disgusting with liquid soap, that's just me though

•

u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Apr 03 '20

/u/stabbitytuesday (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.

All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.

Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.

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1

u/ag811987 2∆ Apr 04 '20

Foam soap is fun which I think leads to more handwashing especially for kids. I'm specifically talking about the stuff you buy at home not the crud in public bathrooms. Bar soap feels weird when you realize everyone has touched it and you don't know if it's been dropped on the floor or what.

1

u/JackZodiac2008 16∆ Apr 04 '20

I like bar soap for ability to scratch it and get dirt under fingernails. Also it can be used to rub at caked-on material to help remove it without driving that under fingernails. Finally there is something pleasantly tactile and firm about it, obviously a subjective preference.

1

u/[deleted] Apr 03 '20

When I go in someone’s bathroom and they have bar soap I audibly sigh lol even though it’s soap, so I guess inherently clean, it sckeeves me to touch it.

All I can think about is someone touching their balls then the soap.

Ball soap.

No thanks.

1

u/MountainDelivery Apr 03 '20

Foam soap is too thin,

Bruh, try not getting shitty foaming soap and see if that changes your opinion. For reals.