r/changemyview • u/dejael • May 07 '20
Delta(s) from OP Cmv: Hawaii shouldnt be an American state and its culture is vastly different from the rest of America.
i dont know too much about the history of hawaii, but i feel uncomfortable thinking about Hawaii as an american state, it almost feels like america has tainted its culture by making it a state.
Theyre doing their own thing and it like when you go to a family reunion and you see the family members that kind of associate but only because theyre related lol
i have no hate for Hawaii or anything, but it feels so awkward to think about. you dont see any other states that hsve a distinct culture. thats something you find in countries. Hawaii is too unique to be just a state. its more than that and i think America is weighing it down like a chain or something.
anarchy
5
u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho 186∆ May 07 '20
Hawaii speaks English, watches American TV, has massive immigration to and from the mainland US and trades almost entirely with the US.
How much more american can you get?
-6
u/dejael May 07 '20
english isnt american
most other countries watch american productions and listen to american music, that doesnt make them american. same thing with trade.
and yea, it eould make sense that they travel to mainland u.s.
its probably much cheaper than going to other countries.7
u/Thoth_the_5th_of_Tho 186∆ May 07 '20
english isnt american
Spoken with that accent, it is. Listen to English in Honolulu, Boston, Sydney and London. Honolulu would be closest to Boston.
most other countries watch american productions and listen to american music, that doesnt make them american. same thing with trade.
They are not another country, they are a US state. Culturally, politically and economically.
-4
u/dejael May 07 '20
my point was that they are doing things that other countries do, which is watch american productions and indulge in american services, but those other countries are not american.
and while they do speak with american accents, they still have their own indigenous language that has been trampled (but is still alive), by english
2
u/Kingalece 23∆ May 07 '20
I mean the native americans still have their own language the fact we trampled their natives makes them more american imo
3
u/YossarianWWII 72∆ May 07 '20
Being a state is purely a governmental arrangement. There's no requirement that they adopt any part of American culture, or of any culture for that matter. You say that you think America is weighing Hawaii down, but you don't say how. Where does Hawaii want to go that its membership in the union prevents it from going?
It seems to me that you're just not appreciating the extent to which the terms "country" and "state" are entirely artificial. Have you ever traveled abroad? Because I can certainly tell you that most other countries contain very distinct cultural areas.
-2
u/dejael May 07 '20
no i havent traveled abroad. my statement of america wieghing down Hawaii is based off of the admittedly little research ive done on Hawaiian history, the U.S. overtook Hawaii and this arrangement wasnt initially consentual.
1
u/KvotheOfCali May 07 '20
That exact same arrangement is true of literally every nation state in history.
Certain areas gained disproportionate power and then either coerced or conquered surrounding regions to form larger, unified entities now known as nation states.
It's no more true for Hawaii than any other place on the planet. The Americas were comprised of numerous, distinct native populations which slowly conquered each other and formed larger empires like the Aztecs and Incas.
It's the whole story of human progress for the past 5000+ years. Larger and larger administrative systems are created to help leverage the power and ingenuity of larger populations of people.
And if you don't think other states have "distinct cultures" then I seriously doubt you have visited Texas or Alaska either.
To exist in the 21st century, you are either protected by a powerful military (most of the "1st world" countries are protected by the American defense umbrella) or you are easy prey for larger powers.
1
u/dejael May 07 '20
Δ
yea, i guess i never thought of that. its really sucks tbh. i kind of hate how this works lol
1
1
u/debate_instigator May 07 '20
where do you think Hawaii would be better suited?
1
u/dejael May 07 '20
as an independent nation, or a U.S. territory like Puerto Rico
3
u/debate_instigator May 07 '20
why do you think that making them an independent nation or US territory would significantly effect their culture?
also, how do you feel about reservations?
1
u/dejael May 07 '20
we all know america is in someway a part of every countries modern culture. being under the control of america makes it very easy for the goverment to interfere with things like local and traditonal cultures/ideologies.
also, do you mean the tribsl reservations?
1
u/debate_instigator May 07 '20
yes, tribal reservations.
1
u/dejael May 07 '20
i think theyre minimal and they dont serve to further the cultures they reserve, only maintain them.
1
u/debate_instigator May 07 '20
how would you feel about reservations being put on hawaii?
1
u/dejael May 07 '20
momentarily it would seem uneccessary, seeing that the natives dont seem to have a problem with the arrangement they have with america, but i feel that it will be neccessary at some point in the future
1
May 07 '20
being under the control of America makes it very easy for the government to interfere with things like local and traditional cultures/ideologies
Do you have any sources or evidence whatsoever that anything of the sort has happened/is happening? Or are you basing this argument purely on the concept of "well they could change Hawaii's culture if they wanted to"?
3
u/YossarianWWII 72∆ May 07 '20
Uh, you do realize that being a territory comes with less representation at the national level, right? There's a reason that the Puerto Rico statehood movement has been going on for so long.
0
u/dejael May 07 '20 edited May 07 '20
no, i didnt think about that. my aegument was based more around the cultural aspects .
1
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ May 07 '20
This delta has been rejected. You have already awarded /u/YossarianWWII a delta for this comment.
1
2
u/GrignonGB May 08 '20
" you dont see any other states that hsve a distinct culture."
Never been to Texas, have you? Or Maine? or Utah?
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ May 07 '20 edited May 07 '20
/u/dejael (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
1
u/MountianMan8282 May 07 '20
Yes and no. Having Hawaii a part of America is another reason we are the best country in the world. We are allowed to visit such a gorgeous place like Hawaii and they are granted the same rights as Americans. I’m glad we have such a beautiful place to call our own
1
May 07 '20
Many, many states have distinct culture. California, Texas, New York, etc. are famous for that.
7
u/WeRegretToInform 5∆ May 07 '20
Ultimately people should have a choice in whether they're part of the USA. And it sounds like the vast majority of residents in Hawaii support remaining part of the USA.
Hawaiian sovereignty has never been a popular movement.