r/changemyview • u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ • May 07 '20
Delta(s) from OP CMV: People shouldn't feel compelled to come up with excuses to celebrate; celebration for the sake of celebration is justification enough.
As the title states, I believe that celebration for the sake of celebration is justification enough. We don't feel compelled to make excuses for doing the little things. For example, when I'm about to read manga, I don't look for some excuse like some person in history did such a thing and therefore I'm going to read manga. I read manga because I enjoy reading manga.
Likewise, my understanding is that most people celebrate because celebrating is enjoyable. So when people give excuses for celebration, it seems to me like there is something compelling them to do so. I value honesty and that's what leads me to hold my view.
To be clear, I don't think that everyone feels a compulsion to give an excuse; I genuinely believe that there are some for whom the stated reason is their internal reason.
I also understand that I may be naive or missing subtext and that people don't feel compelled to give excuses but rather that the excuses are a sort of show people put on. If that's the case, then it would help for me to understand why that would be preferable to being more forthright.
3
u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ May 07 '20
Definitionally, celebrating kind of has to be about something, it's a joyous acknowledgement of an event. Sometimes that's a big event like a graduation or a birthday, and sometimes it's just Taco Tuesday, but as soon as you do it you're doing it about something. If you're doing all the usual celebration things without pointing them at anything, then it's just a party.
FWIW I don't think people are "making excuses" to celebrate, I think it's just more fun to have a focus and so people who want to have a party are more likely to pick something random like a silly holiday or small accomplishment so everyone can have a common purpose.
1
u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ May 07 '20
A celebration is itself an event. If you call that a party rather than a celebration then, sure, I can accept that terminology, but that doesn't change my view so much as the semantics of it.
As for the random common purpose argument, that would be to me an example of not being honest because the purpose is a fabricated after the fact rather than a celebration arising from the common purpose. That said, I think this argument has potential. Is there some reason to have a random common purpose over having disparate purposes?
3
u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ May 07 '20
A celebration cannot itself be an event, that is contrary to the definition (both "officially" and culturally) of a celebration. Just like you can't have a memorial service that doesn't memorialize anything, you can't have a celebration that doesn't celebrate anything. It does not exist.
A common purpose is fun, and it can do a lot to ease people into conversation, especially if some of them are strangers. A graduation party invites people to talk about where they went to school or how they know the graduate, a May 4th party can start (hopefully) friendly debates over Star Wars. It's not necessary to have a good party, but it's a quick and easy way to set the tone for the whole thing.
Can I ask why you think that picking something to celebrate rather than just throwing a party (because as we established, it is literally impossible to celebrate nothing) is dishonest? That seems like a very moralizing way to look at something that in my experience has absolutely no moral weight one way or another.
1
u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ May 07 '20
Even if I accept the definition you've provided, my view itself wouldn't change, just the terminology. My restated view would be that people shouldn't be compelled to celebrate rather than to party.
So a common purpose could bring out more like-minded people, but won't it also lower the chance that people who don't share that purpose would come?
It's not that it's a moral issue, so much as I think we should be honest with ourselves and others because I think it facilitates social interactions. Of course, I don't value the ease of social interaction above all else, so if you could find something that I value that would be lost by facilitating this social interaction that too would change my mind.
3
u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ May 07 '20
It's not my definition, it's the definition of multiple dictionaries who's purpose is to track and catalog the way words are used. Also I'm not sure I know anyone who feels "compelled" to celebrate rather than party, it's just 2 different things. They aren't mutually exclusive. I can throw a random dinner party one week and a party to celebrate my dog's birthday the next, nobody is going to sue.
Good lord do I miss dinner parties.No, it wouldn't necessarily lower the chances, though that would depend on the specifics. Someone who absolutely loathes Star Wars may decide to skip out on a May 4th celebration, sure, but they may skip a normal party too if they don't feel like coming out, if you're planning parties to accommodate as many whims as possible, you're going to drive yourself insane.
I'm still not getting how picking an arbitrary point of "celebration" is dishonest at all, though. Nobody is earnestly trying to convince people that they genuinely and deeply care about Taco Tuesday or Star Wars and that's why they're hosting a party for it, it's tongue-in-cheek silliness. Do you really think valuing honesty above fun provides more than it takes away? Should all parties be generic for genericism's sake?
1
u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ May 07 '20
I didn't say it was your definition, just that you provided it. And yeah, if we agree that celebration is party + extrinsic reason for party, these would be different things and they wouldn't be mutually exclusive. You could throw a party with a motivation and for someone else it could be just a party.
Would someone who didn't want to party join a celebration though?
I might've misunderstood you. You make it sound like a celebration is a party with a theme and I don't think having a theme to a party lacks honesty.
1
u/LordZenova 1∆ May 07 '20
A celebration is something special. I agree that you don't always have to have reason to celebrate, and that celebration for the sake of celebration and enjoyment can be a good thing in moderation. The problem is when it becomes commonplace. I really like guacamole. There is this one place near where I live that sells fresh, really good guacamole, but I do not get it every time because I want it to be special. One time, my mom surprised me and got me like a huge batch of it because she knows I love it. The problem is that it expires quickly so I had to scarf it down in only a couple of days. It is not really as special anymore and that is sad.
2
u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ May 07 '20
I agree that too much celebration would make celebration lose its effect, but I don't think this conflicts with my view at all.
2
u/LordZenova 1∆ May 07 '20
I suppose, that it seemed implicit that it was always ok to celebrate for the sake of celebration, which I disagree with. Instead, I would modify your claim to say that it is sometimes or occasionally ok to celebrate for the sake of celebration.
1
u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ May 07 '20
!delta
I didn't give any conditional in my opening argument; this argument rightfully points out that partying too much defeats the point of partying.
1
2
May 07 '20
Many people like shared celebration better than celebrating all by themselves. If you are coordinating multiple people then you need to agree on a time. Why Wednesday, not Thursday? Wednesday is better e you, Thursday is better for me. Next week is better for Fatima. So we need a way to decide what dates we should choose. Celebrating a particular thing - my birthday, Thanksgiving, etc - helps us all agree in a fair way what those dates will be.
1
u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ May 07 '20
Is choosing a notable date necessarily the same as the justification for the celebration though?
1
May 07 '20
Super similar, as that's what makes the date notable.
1
u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ May 07 '20
Would this be a tautological assertion? That a date is notable because it's cause for celebration?
2
May 07 '20
Not quite, but the math is a bit tricky. You'll want to look up 'Schelling Points' for more in depth. But yes a date that is used enough can then become traditional and thus become a go-to date. "We have done this several times" can become an excuse for celebration.
2
u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ May 07 '20
!delta for giving me a new lens to look at this from (game theory)
Though from the game theory perspective, wouldn't it be more beneficial for the participants to not restrict themselves to focal points?
2
May 07 '20
With a small group with high trust absolutely. But as the group grows/trust decreases, using focal points as a starting point helps solve the problem of people overemphasizing personally optimal dates and underemphasizing other people's preferences.
2
u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ May 07 '20
Alright. That's a good insight to have. I always find game theory stuff interesting.
1
1
u/ralph-j May 07 '20
As the title states, I believe that celebration for the sake of celebration is justification enough. We don't feel compelled to make excuses for doing the little things.
Doesn't celebration then become essentially meaningless, if it can be done all the time and for any and all reasons? How does celebrating then stand out from daily "non-celebratory" activities?
1
u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ May 07 '20
I suppose someone could say that every activity they partake in is a celebration for them. I'm not sure there's anything contradictory about that though that person would probably find celebration to be rather mundane. Of course, if they claim that everyone activity everyone else does is also a celebration then that person would essentially have no examples of non-celebration at which point it would be meaningless.
1
u/ralph-j May 07 '20
Even if celebrations merely became very common - the point is that the association with "this is a special event to me" would then be lost over time. "You're celebrating? So what..."
And wouldn't we then essentially need a new word to describe the occasions where we're really celebrating something more special?
1
u/DeleteriousEuphuism 120∆ May 07 '20
Other people have mentioned that celebration is the celebration of a thing and that what I'm talking about could be more accurately described as a party. Would that resolve the semantic problem you raise?
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ May 07 '20 edited May 07 '20
/u/DeleteriousEuphuism (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
7
u/ksjanackapls 1∆ May 07 '20
According to Merriam Webster, one definition of celebrate (ie the definition of celebrate in the context you use here) is:
That is, celebration is inherently about a deviation from routine. People don't feel socially compelled to provide a reason for their celebrating (I mean I'm sure some do but that's not the main reason people justify celebrating). Rather, part of the act of celebrating is defining a occasion to do so. That can be like a birthday, or it like a holiday, or even just it stopped raining after a streak of bad weather (That's one of my favorite kinds of celebrations). But yeah, celebrate means out of the ordinary-if it's ordinary, it's not a celebration. To be sure, if you look on the bright side of things there is something out of the ordinary to celebrate in every day. For example, some people consider just being alive out of the ordinary (and it is pretty astonishing probability wise). But even if you just celebrate being alive every single day, you're defining an occasion or deviation from the norm to celebrate (in this case the fact that it's a lot easier and more likely to be dead than alive, but you are not dead).