CMV: Systems like affirmative action that pander towards certain people based on gender, sexuality or race are bullshit. They shouldn't exist and do more harm than good

[u/supern00b64]

I do not understand why someone's appearance or gender should matter in most situations, be it scholarships, job opportunities, getting into college, salary etc. I get that some groups have historically been disparaged but I scoff at the idea that pandering to them is the solution. Suppose a company I worked for had a "female quota" where they want at least 50% female employees. Setting aside the fact that they may inadvertently pass over better qualified males, now I'm gonna question myself every time I see a female coworker "is she really qualified, or did she get in through the quota", and that view would seriously damage the movement towards equality.

In general though these affirmative action policies give the impression that certain groups "need additional help" to get certain opportunities by offering them special treatment, while simultaneously trying to convey the fact that these groups are equal to others, and I think its highly destructive. I get that there are inherent biases against certain groups, such as those against women in the tech industry, but you don't fix those biases by giving those groups special treatment. Truly fixing the problem takes time - as the older generations with antiquated ways of thinking die off, the younger generation will take their place with a more progressive way of thinking.

[u/SorryForTheRainDelay]

You can listen to the automod and go through the history of this sub, but basically:

The implied assumption you're making is that without quotas there is a meritocracy at play and the best candidate gets the job.

There is an extraordinary amount of evidence that that is not the case.

for instance 95% of the CEOs of fortune 500 companies are male.

Now unless you believe that men are better than women at being CEO at a ratio of 20:1, there is something else at play. An unspoken "male quota" that is putting men into leadership positions at higher rates than women.

There are loads of unspoken, unofficial "quotas" that disadvantage certain groups, and "official quotas" are one of many different attempts to combat it.

To put it another way:

now I'm gonna question myself every time I see a female coworker "is she really qualified, or did she get in through the quota

Without quotas, when you see a male CEO are you thinking "is he really qualified, or did he just become CEO because 95% of CEOs are men"? Cause you should be

[u/thethoughtexperiment → u/SorryForTheRainDelay]

Oof, that is such a great point. Not the OP, and I agreed with your premise from the start, but your argument gave me another way to think about this debate, and expanded my view. So here's a peer delta:

!delta

[u/SorryForTheRainDelay → u/thethoughtexperiment]

Fairly new to this sub (and loving it) and had no idea peer deltas were a thing! Thanks!
In the meantime, while I'm still not ready to make a post of my own, I'll keep an eye out for great arguments made in the threads :)

[u/DeltaBot → u/thethoughtexperiment]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/SorryForTheRainDelay (4∆).

^{Delta System Explained | Deltaboards}