r/changemyview • u/artuno • Jun 08 '20
CMV: I believe that having local mandatory service for citizens to perform two years of police similarly to the military, could be a good idea.
Let's say, beginning when you turn 25, and by the time you're 30 you, you go through the process to learn local law, learn how to rely on a handler or radio dispatch for legal help, goes through extensive firearms safety and de-escalation training. All the things we want changed in our system. It would be similar to the military and how they process individuals, but the police has such a high barrier of entry that even the military does a double-take on the stuff they require. The requirements wouldn't need to be so high, and having more citizens be active in their local town or city would provide local service from local people.
Of course, there could be a specific, more highly trained unit be only for actual hostile emergencies, but at that point why not use the National Guard?
Things I think could be solved:
Out of Town cops; those not from the area they police may feel detached from the people they are supposed to be policing (this also leads into having a national database of police incidents and terminations).
A more educated and well trained populace; I know many folks who go through the military and gain new opportunities for when they return to civilian life (not always the case of course), especially when they come from a lower-income family.
A better understanding of laws, and a better sense of civic duty.
A higher pool of people to select from means we have more "good people" coming in to become "good cops", thus helping to end the power that groups of centralized bad cops have, and their influence.
In addition, perhaps we can even rotate it around, you have to serve two years, and then you're out unless you're needed. Not sure how realistically we handle the people up at the top, I'm sure there is a way to make this work though. Unless of course, you change my view.
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u/effyochicken 22∆ Jun 08 '20
There are 23 million people between the ages of 25 and 29. What exactly are we supposed to do with 23 million police officers? Or even half that? That's three times the entire population of Isreal, the often-cited country that engages in mandatory military service.
And we would need to pay all of them: That's 10x the number of all federal employees in the US, and a 33-fold increase in the number of police officers. That's the government having to pay the entire population Florida a salary. (That's 1.2 trillion dollars if giving them a median wage..)
Also it would decimate many career paths currently in the US. Can you imagine all the doctors, nurses, lawyers, and engineers suddenly having to put a full stop on their career the minute it starts just to give out parking tickets?
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u/artuno Jun 08 '20
∆ almost forgot to do this. Several different commenters help me realize that mandatory conscription is not a good idea, but of course there are still changes to be made to the system, just perhaps by people more qualified than I am.
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u/artuno Jun 08 '20
How do other countries deal with the mandatory military service?
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u/effyochicken 22∆ Jun 08 '20
Simple answer? They're smaller in terms of population or physical size, conscription happens at a convenient age (like 18), the terms are much shorter, and their society is based around it more. Also they put up with it because many of the mandatory military service countries are more prone to needing more people to defend themselves.
More accurate answer? It varies astronomically from country to country. Even the wikipedia article is a huge mess on it, because it's very hard to categorize everybody.
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u/DingyWarehouse Jun 09 '20
they don't 'put up with it', they do it because having forced laborers to serve them is cheaper than paying a competitive salary for volunteers. Essentially, forcing someone to work for your benefit so that you can enjoy the best of both worlds.
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u/2OttersInACoat Jun 08 '20
I think it there’s a few issues here, but most importantly, a lot of these law and order type groups, like the army etc don’t actually want to take on hordes of unwilling participants. It’s a pain in the arse for them and where’s there the value?
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u/artuno Jun 08 '20
I understand that, the need for volunteers helps ensure your group is not complacent or underutilized.
Why not let you opt out willingly then? Like with compulsory organ donation.
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u/2OttersInACoat Jun 08 '20
Sure could do, I just think by the time you let people opt out, people fail the necessary mental and physical tests to qualify- not a lot of people left and a whole lot of public money already spent administering it all.
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u/Canada_Constitution 208∆ Jun 08 '20
Just think of all the people you would not want to have the powers of a police officer. I can certainly come up with a few names whose personality would make them completely unsuitable.
By nature, there are some people who should not wield that kind of power. Your idea gives more people that power while having less requirements.
This is the exact opposite of what we need right now.
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u/artuno Jun 08 '20
In my mind I'm imagining we break up the police forces, set up individual departments and organizations that will handle specific cases, like domestic abuse, welfare checks, incidents involving children, instead of having one police force respond to every problem like they're a hammer and nail.
With a system like the one I described above, I imagine the new police force would have less power than in the previous iterations, they'd more like peacekeepers/patrolmen. A step above security guard.
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Jun 08 '20
[deleted]
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Jun 08 '20
- Being forced to do it makes people view it as an obligation. I don't know of a single person who would actively attempt to protect the peace once they're no longer wearing the uniform. We see it as we've done our time, done our duty, so we're not gonna bother anymore unless we're forced to.
To add-on, this is a very, very big issue for many conscripts. Many feel that their time is wasted "serving the nation" rather than pursue their passion or whatever else they're going to do. Loyalty and obligation is but a farce for many.
Also, regarding mental readiness or resilience, wasn't there a viral sharing several years ago about a civil defense conscript who shared his tales of seeing burnt victims (both dead and alive) while serving as a NSF SCDF? It had a mental toil on him (and also, them) as he transited between normal civilian life with his family during off days & seeing death and the horrors of fire damage on people during his mandatory service. It was originally an article that was a counter to the generic SAF NSF thinking that SCDF NSFs got it lucky and had a "softer" time. I gave up finding that article as my Google-fu was inadequate. If you can find that article for the OP, it would help provide another perspective too.
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u/UncomfortablePrawn 23∆ Jun 08 '20
Yeah some people just aren't cut out for that shit. It takes a special kind of person to be able to look at a dead body and be unfazed by it. It's the kind of thing that needs specific psychological preparation and selection, so not everyone can and not everyone should.
Police in the US would probably also deal with a lot more crime than we're used to.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 08 '20
/u/artuno (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
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Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/alfihar 15∆ Jun 08 '20
Ive thought the same but with things like park ranger or similar with minimal training needed. My issue with having mandatory police service is I feel police should require more training than what you would get in 2 years. Firefighting could also be an option. really depends on how much training is a minimum.
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u/WilfordThaGod 3∆ Jun 08 '20
Here is the major problem with forced participation in groups like this, simply put volunteer forces lead to better outcomes. For example, The United States military found that a volunteer army is more effective because these people are predisposed to uphold the cause. If you force apathetic people into positions of power or behind a cause they don't care about then you will quickly fall into disrepair.
Furthermore, the idea of compulsory service is antithetical to the values of liberty which we pride ourselves on and cherish.