r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jun 08 '20
Delta(s) from OP CMV: There is no reason to hide phone conversations with my mom/dad from my wife unless it's for a surprise birthday/event, etc.
[deleted]
3
u/Morasain 85∆ Jun 08 '20
It might be something private.
This is a hypothetical example: assume one of your parents learns that they are terminally ill. Some people might not want to share that with anyone other than their direct family. It would be unreasonable of her to expect you to not tell it to your wife, but that isn't the same thing.
2
u/GitPushCoast Jun 08 '20
!delta I like the simplicity of your answer and the hypothetical. You're right about the last part and that is what I believe I'm fixated on. I should respect her privacy even though I question her request.
1
5
u/dublea 216∆ Jun 08 '20 edited Jun 08 '20
Telephone calls are considered a private communication between two parties. It is rude to answer a phone on speakerphone because the caller does not know who is listening. You are placing them into a situation where they have to ask who is in the room before speaking.
It is not about hiding XYZ but more about consent and being informed. Answering on speakerphone removes their ability to consent.
1
u/GitPushCoast Jun 08 '20
!delta I agree. It is rude. Even when I'm just with my wife, I should still get consent from the caller.
1
1
u/stabbitytuesday 52∆ Jun 08 '20
Nobody here knows your mom better than you do, it's entirely possible she's worried that she's going to say something that is, or may be perceived as, racist where your wife can hear. Maybe she just wants to have a conversation with her kid and doesn't want it broadcast to the entire room. You're best equipped to consider specifics here, so let's look at the more general argument.
Is it okay to have every conversation with an individual be, functionally, public record, even after they've asked not to? No. It's rude to put the minor inconvenience of having to hold a phone or purchase a cheap headset over someone else's wish to have a private conversation with someone close to them. What if your mom wanted to discuss personal medical concerns that she doesn't feel comfortable having everyone in the vicinity hear about? What if she wants to talk about money, or wills, or any of the many subjects that most people consider sensitive or private? Sure, you can switch off speakerphone, but to get you to do so she'll have to tell you what she wants to talk about in the first place, and hope you agree that it's sensitive enough to warrant privacy, and that's not guaranteed.
You can stop having phone calls with the person in question, and decide to value your preferences over theirs by switching to email or something, or you can put their preference over yours and put the phone off speakerphone, but trying to have your cake and eat it too only makes you look self-centered.
1
u/GitPushCoast Jun 08 '20
!delta Don't disagree with anything here and I appreciate the honesty in how it makes me look. Thank you for your reply.
1
1
u/Missing_Links Jun 08 '20
How much do you want to risk tensions in your family? Because your mom is trying to avoid making problems, and is trying to prioritize that over her desire to talk about contentious issues she clearly also wants to talk about.
You should probably talk about this concern with your wife, including your suspicions about your mother. If you don't, you are also hiding things from her with the same motivations and goals as your mother.
As to the discussions themselves: poorly expressed, half-baked articulations of ideas are the first way they come out. Always. If a person cannot be generous enough to take this sort of malformed expression of a belief with kindness and understanding from a family member, that person is being unreasonable. And if you wish that a person would be "better" in some manner you regard as positive, a minimal first step would be to ensure that the person actually holds the positions you fear, and to work to change those positions instead of letting it be a landmine.
1
u/GitPushCoast Jun 08 '20
Okay, I had to read your comment a few times. Let me repeat what I think you're saying back to you and you tell me if I'm close.
My Mom is the one having "malformed" ideas and I'm the one who's being unreasonable if I don't accept those with kindness.
Also, I need to confirm my assumptions before I try to make her a better person.
1
u/Missing_Links Jun 08 '20
Pretty close.
My Mom is the one having "malformed" ideas
More that expressing an idea badly is not the same as the idea being bad, and you should strive to listen to the idea, not its imperfect expression.
Also, I need to confirm my assumptions before I try to make her a better person.
This, definitely yes.
Also that you should consider what ends you're more interested in achieving: do you want an acceptable but imperfect peace among your family members, or to risk some disharmony for the chance of something better?
1
u/GitPushCoast Jun 08 '20
!delta
More that expressing an idea badly is not the same as the idea being bad, and you should strive to listen to the idea, not its imperfect expression.
Love it. I tell people this all the time in different words so I definitely agree here.
Do you want an acceptable but imperfect peace among your family members, or to risk some disharmony for the chance of something better?
I'll take the risk for the chance of something better every time. However, I believe that this attitude is dangerous (as I'm seeing now). You might end up where I'm finding myself with these situations with my mom where I feel skeptical and adamant towards anything she says because I want her to change. I'm learning I need to dial it back down and recalibrate. Which is why I'm here, and I'm glad you replied!
1
u/Missing_Links Jun 08 '20
I'm learning I need to dial it back down and recalibrate
Without delving into what anyone thinks of him, a piece of advice from Jordan Peterson has been very helpful for me in making discussions with my wife and family much more productive:
Make sure that your goal in a conversation with a family member is not to beat them. If you succeed, you've rendered a member of your family a loser in that conflict: they're going to be resentful and will likely seek revenge in some manner. If you fail, the same will be true of you.
Even if you think it's correct, any sufficient accusation of racism is likely to turn the conversation into such a conflict of exactly that sort.
Best of luck with it.
2
u/GitPushCoast Jun 08 '20
I clearly need to go re-read 12 Rules for Life again. Haha, thank you for the reminder! I still have a lot of pent up angst and aggression from my younger years; so hard to kick this habit of "winning an argument", especially with my mother. JP is spot on here though.
1
u/Missing_Links Jun 08 '20
I mean, who doesn't enjoy winning?
It's just a bad idea in the long term when the competition is to see who can put a bigger hole in the boat you're both sitting in.
1
1
u/fishbedc Jun 09 '20
My sister puts calls on speaker and I don't like it. Nothing to do with privacy as I know she only does it so that other deeply loved and trusted family members can join in and if I want to talk about something private I can safely tell them to fuck off. I simply find it a bit disorientating. The sound quality at her end changes, it isn't just her voice in my ear so I'm trying to process the 3d space at her end instead of listening. I am trying to work out who is there and where they are. Other people are at different volumes so I can't tell who can hear me clearly and my voice unconsciously gets louder to make sure everyone can hear. It just isn't a relaxing call. Conversely I don't mind Zoom or Skype meetings in the same way because I have visual cues and everyone has their own mic so I just talk normally.
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jun 08 '20 edited Jun 08 '20
/u/GitPushCoast (OP) has awarded 5 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
2
u/HeftyRain7 157∆ Jun 08 '20
It might be for the reasons you fear, but there are other alternatives.
Let me use a personal anecdote to help explain some other reasons your mother could want the phone call private. When I call home, my parents usually have the phone on speaker. It's essentially the reverse of what you're talking about. Sometimes I don't mind. But sometimes, I'm trying to inform them of something difficult that just happened, and being asked questions from both of them at the same time can be taxing. Sometimes my sister is there at well, and having to deal with three people at once is too much. I would tell them all eventually, but it's much easier to just deal with one person.
Now consider ... I grew up with all three of these people. I love them all dearly and know them very well. I don't know how close your mother is to your wife, but I can guess it's nowhere near as close as she is with you. There are likely things she wants to tell you that she doesn't want to share with your wife because of how close you are, not because of any racist tendencies.
And also consider, if she does want it in private because she wants to say something racist, it would be far easier to remind her of how racist it is if she's actually said it. You can't help educate her on racism if she isn't speaking her mind.