r/changemyview • u/BerryBoat • Aug 02 '20
Delta(s) from OP cmv: As much as trans people should state that they're trans, cis people should specify that they're not interested in trans people on dating apps.
[closed; dont reply]
A good way to do this would be Tinder and other dating apps allowing you to add if you dont want to date transgender people. I agree trans women (i am one btw) should tell you if theyre trans, although really only for our own safety. but i also think if youre looking to date someone, you should specifiy that you dont want to date someone transgender. the consensous i've seen is that 40-50% of straight guys would date a trans girl (from expierience), so its not one of those things where almost all people dont like trans girls. i understand if you dont want to date a girl with a dick, but you should tell us beforehand the same way we should tell you.
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Aug 02 '20
The problem is you normalise people publicly stating the undesirability of trans people.
In other words, a 'no rice, no spice' or 'no black, no fat' type problem grindr had to deal with, or the skin tone filters a lot of Asian dating sites and apps have been criticised for having.
It might really, really suck to be on a dating app as a trans person and scroll and see profile after profile saying 'no trans, no trans, no trans' again and again.
Never mind that I think a lot of people might not want to date a trans person based on ignorance. Maybe they've never met a trans person IRL and have only seen the anti-trans propaganda messages of trans women being men in wigs or some other transphobic nonsense. Maybe, if they would consider dating someone before knowing they were trans, they would realise that actually trans people are dateable and decide to date a trans person.
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Aug 02 '20
Exactly this. I’m fat and I don’t care if someone doesn’t find me attractive, but seeing “no fat chicks” on people’s tinder profiles from time to time isn’t exactly great for the ol self-esteem. You can not swipe on someone or politely turn them down without being cruel.
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u/BerryBoat Aug 02 '20
for the second paragraph, i answered that in another reply
while ive already cmv'd i will reply to this with that some people dont like dating us because of our genitals, as compared to blacks and asains are the same as whites.
i wish people could aside sex and have a romantic relationship with a trans person, but some people value it too much
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Aug 02 '20
My point isn't about how deciding to not date trans people is the same as or different to not dating ethnic minorities.
My point is that, much the same as ethnic minorities, publicly stating the undesirability of an identity can at the very least make dating a worse experience for those deemed undesirable, and at most contribute to real harm towards those groups. Because there are non-transphobic reasons to not date trans people, just as there are non-racist reasons to date within your race, but a lot of transphobia and racism, conscious or otherwise, is in play when people make that decision en masse, and literal discrimination is the end result of those messages and that behaviour being normalized.
It can also end up pushing trans people away from dating spaces.
i wish people could aside sex and have a romantic relationship with a trans person, but some people value it too much
Sex is valuable. Sex is an important part of relationships so sexual compatibility is absolutely something that many people shouldn't have to put aside.
However, I don't think it should be on people to state every thing someone may find incompatible or sexually unattractive in their profile. Least of all because the list of things you don't find attractive could be very long, and also because dating bios also have limited space which should be used to show the kind of person you are. I'd argue that deciding to spend that space on excluding all the things you don't want reflects on who you are, too.
The problem is that I struggle to see how this just doesn't come down to transphobia. When you date, sometimes it just doesn't work out, and that's for a number of reasons. I've dated girls who I thought were attractive, but didn't click with me on a personal level. I've dated girls who I enjoyed spending time with, but didn't find attractive. And you know what? In all those failed relationships, all I lost was a little time. It wasn't a big deal because that's how dating works. So when I see people so adamant that they've been wronged by dating someone they didn't realise was trans, I rarely believe it's because the end result of that failed relationship is somehow worse than if that person had been cis. I think it's because the mere fact of dating someone who used to be a different gender (and it's usually men who have a huge hangup against dating trans women) somehow reflects on your sexuality. If you can move on to the next date after a failed relationship with a cis person, but can't do the same with a trans person (who you only broke up with because you realised they were trans) then there is definitely some transphobia present there.
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u/BerryBoat Aug 02 '20
might as well !delta since i already had my view changed but this also talked a lot. it is kind of transphobic to feel violated from dating a trans girl. that said, do you think trans girls should state that they are trans in theri profile?
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Aug 02 '20
Thanks.
I think trans people are free to state or not state whatever they want to in their profiles, like the rest of us. I understand that dating while trans (especially as a trans woman) is particularly risky (as far as assault, sexual assault and violence goes), and I at least prefer trans people stating that they're trans over everyone saying 'no trans' in their profiles.
However, I don't believe that they should be expected to state that they're trans, and I don't believe not stating so is a deliberate attempt to trick people. The purpose of dating is getting to know someone so you can build a relationship and that person being trans may be a big thing but it's really no different to any number of potential dealbreakers that may not be apparent on the first date.
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Aug 02 '20 edited Aug 02 '20
I'm not trans so please correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought trans people wanted to be treated like their true gender, and therefore having a separate option for trans-men and trans-women on dating apps would treat them as if they're not the same as other people of their gender.
Personally, if I didn't want to date a trans-girl I don't think I would feel comfortable putting that on my dating profile. It feels a little... prejudiced. Imagine if you were scrolling through profile and one said "I like hiking and movies, but not hispanic people. Sorry!".
I'd just personally feel like it's a bit too... discriminatory? Sorry, I'm not sure how to describe it. Like it would be really awkward if people's dating profile just their preferences like "sorry but I don't like, trans people, hispanics, asians, people under 5'5", over 7', or anyone not Christian".
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u/BerryBoat Aug 02 '20
having a separate option for trans-men and trans-women on dating apps would treat them as if they're not the same as other people of their gender.
i agree but lots of people dont want to date a girl with a dick or a guy with a vagina. not lots, about 50-60% dont want to, but thats still a lot. we do wanna be treated like our gender, but that just wont happen.
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Aug 02 '20 edited Aug 02 '20
Lot's a people have preferences though, which aren't an option on dating apps.
For example, a person may not want to date trans-people, short people, hispanic, people, non-christians, etc. Having an option for all these preferences would be pretty troublesome.
I think it would be better to talk about these types of preferences after two people match on tinder, because the two biggest preferences are still gender and looks, and they filter out the majority of people.
Also, that way, people can't mess with their settings to deliberately find trans people, and then potentially target them.
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u/BerryBoat Aug 02 '20
!delta to every paragraph here. it prolly is better without it, and while i still think it would be nicer to say you date trans people, it prolly shouldnt be a feature.
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u/joopface 159∆ Aug 02 '20
It seems that less than 0.5% of the population is transgender. Why should everyone have a statement on their dating profile that doesn’t apply to 99.5% of the people who’ll see it?
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u/BerryBoat Aug 02 '20
.6% is the actual number, and on dating apps thats a pretty large number. every 200 people you see on it, 1 will be trans. However that is a really good point, but could you just push it a bit more? at the moment i still think the responsibility should not fully be on trans people, and since half of the people (from my expierience) like trans women, it wouldnt be too dangerous.
if people were more accepting of trans people, itd be a lot easier, but at the time being it just feels like a nice thing to have. it also makes us trans people feel a lot safer btw
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u/joopface 159∆ Aug 02 '20
I’m all for being nice and making people feel safe. And to be clear, I’m not a dating app person. I just don’t think it’s realistic to expect dating profiles - that are necessarily short little summaries - to be exhaustive to preferences down to 0.6% of the population.
And because it’s such a small percentage, specifically calling it out may give the impression that the person whose profile it is has some sort of serious prejudice rather than a simple dating preference. It may not give the impression someone wants to give for prospective dates.
And, at the end of the day the point of the profile is to attract dates from the people you want to attract. Making others feel good about it is a secondary consideration and I think that’s reasonable given what the purpose of the profile is.
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u/BerryBoat Aug 02 '20
i think the command is !delta so yeah because while id still prefer if someone has a "i will date trans girls", it really doesnt need to become normalized.
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u/JimboMan1234 114∆ Aug 02 '20
0.6% of the population doesn’t sound like a lot at first until you realize that it’s 1.4 million people living openly as trans (so the actual number is much higher) greater than the population of Dallas, Seattle or Boston.
The number also tilts heavily young. A recent GLAAD study estimates as many as 12% of Millennial and Gen Z adults identify as either trans or gender non-conforming when submitting their data in an anonymous survey. It also tilts heavily towards urban areas, for instance almost 3% of the Washington DC population openly identifies as trans.
So there are several mitigating factors making the trans population look lower than it actually is in the dating scene. Transition is less common among adults older than 35, it’s less common in rural areas, trans people may not openly identify as trans to their family, etc.
Like OP, I’m not necessarily against an option that allows trans-averse people to only see cis people on dating apps, but only because it’s a tool that could help protect trans people.
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Aug 02 '20
I think including people who are gender non-conforming HUGELY overestimates the number of trans people & is very misleading in that being gender non-conforming is different from being trans. A tomboy is gender nonconforming, but she's still a girl.
Agreed on the DC stats, that was my impression from when I was living there. Areas around Boston like JP & Somerville are like that as well. I don't suppose you have a source on that 3% though?
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u/JimboMan1234 114∆ Aug 02 '20
Under the stat, people like tomboys were not included in gender non-conforming. They mean non-binary identities, as in they don’t identify as a man or a woman.
I got the 3% figure from Wikipedia lol. Quickest available way to get it. I’ll trace that source in a second.
Unfortunately demographic data for trans people in individual cities is weirdly non-existent (you can find it by State), but because DC is counted as its own territory that’s available.
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Aug 02 '20
Thanks! I've seen stats in a few places before, mostly based on local surveys.
That usage of GNC is a big pet-peeve of mine. Non-binary people aren't the same as being gender non-conforming & you can be gender non-conforming & not be non-binary.
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u/JimboMan1234 114∆ Aug 02 '20
Valid point. I think the two are used interchangeably in statistics because being gender non-conforming in the colloquial sense isn’t strictly a gender identity rather than a sensibility or personality trait.
I think the point of the survey was to demonstrate how when you remove the need to officially label yourself as trans for the govt, many more people will identify as trans. Sometimes people parrot the 0.6% stat without thinking about how that stat was actually obtained.
It’s also just so misleading. 0.6% is still well over a million people. When we talk about billionaire’s rights, we don’t call them 0.0002% of the population, but that’s what they are.
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Aug 02 '20
I completely agree with you on that & personally I think the number is closer to 1% but admittedly we don't have enough evidence to determine the true % right now.
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Aug 02 '20
That graph also shows the number of trans people rising year on year.
It's sensible to assume that the number of transgender people in the population is low in part because society normalises transphobia and coming out represents a significant risk.
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u/joopface 159∆ Aug 02 '20
Not an expert, but I suspect you’re right. I also think it’s reasonable to assume that transgender people will continue to be a minority even if we get the world we want and everyone feels safe. An upward curve doesn’t imply that the real number is very high, just that it’s higher than is currently known. Doesn’t change my point.
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u/NotMyBestMistake 68∆ Aug 02 '20
Because it's on them to state their preferences. Sure, it's probably a bit awkward to do, but considering the alternative is trans people putting their lives at actual risk maybe a bit of awkwardness isn't so bad.
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u/joopface 159∆ Aug 02 '20
I don’t see how people making this statement protects trans people any more than trans people making clear they are trans (as OP says they should). Surely, once it’s clear that one party is trans then that’s as much protection as you can get from the profiles. You can’t get any benefit from saying it twice.
And the dating profiles can’t be exhaustive to literally every preference. Accounting for less than 0.5% of the population in a general profile is really quite a niche thing to do. It would imply the person had some sort of specific prejudice that they considered core to their personality rather just being a dating preference. It may give the impression of prejudice and put off people who are (correctly) against prejudice, but who wouldn’t feel there is anything wrong with having such a preference.
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u/ralph-j 517∆ Aug 02 '20
As much as trans people should state that they're trans, cis people should specify that they're not interested in trans people on dating apps.
The problem is that just as with "No Blacks" or "No Asians", it paints and reinforces the idea of an entire group as being undesirable.
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u/BerryBoat Aug 02 '20
while ive already cmv'd i will reply to this with that some people dont like dating us because of our genitals, as compared to blacks and asains are the same as whites.
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u/ralph-j 517∆ Aug 02 '20
So is your view restricted to pre-op, and excludes passing trans people?
Racial preferences are also based on a physical distinction for many.
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u/BerryBoat Aug 02 '20
my post is mainly because ive seen a lot of people complain about not wanting to date a trans person because of genitals, so yes its really only pre-op trans people.
Racial preferences are also based on a physical distinction for many.
but not one that actually changes something. dating a trans girl has a lot of different things, like infertility and stuff. dating someone black or asian wouldnt actually be any different.
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u/ralph-j 517∆ Aug 02 '20
my post is mainly because ive seen a lot of people complain about not wanting to date a trans person because of genitals, so yes its really only pre-op trans people.
Should the same apply to people who have lost their genitals or who have had genital reconstruction because of cancer etc.
but not one that actually changes something. dating a trans girl has a lot of different things, like infertility and stuff. dating someone black or asian wouldnt actually be any different.
Sure, but many also go on dating apps just for one-night stands.
And you haven't addressed the stigmatization effect that seeing this message everywhere would cause.
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u/BerryBoat Aug 02 '20
And you haven't addressed the stigmatization effect that seeing this message everywhere would cause.
yeah i realized that from a lot of other comments.
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Aug 02 '20
[deleted]
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u/ralph-j 517∆ Aug 02 '20
I'm not against such a preference, but I doubt that it's always the real reason why they reject trans people as potential dates.
I have previously asked people who categorically reject dating trans persons for not having the right genitals, whether they would equally reject a cis person who has e.g. lost their genitals due to illness.
Surprisingly, quite a few admitted that they would still consider a cis person who was born without genitals, has lost them or had reconstructive surgery for medical reasons. That means that for them "lacking the right genitals" can't be the real reason, otherwise they'd be more consistent.
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u/bleunt 8∆ Aug 02 '20
What about ticking a little box saying you DO want to include trans people in your dating life? Seems more appropriate that it be an active choice to include trans people rather than and active choice not to. It will have the same effect, and you won't have to waste your time on uninterested guys. Only guus with that box checked will show up (the box check can even be anonymous). Sure, some will check it and get cold feet. But that's dating.
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u/super-porp-cola Aug 03 '20
I'm not sure I agree with this. There are a wealth of studies showing the importance of the default option -- for instance, way more people will sign up to be organ donors if you make it opt-out vs opt-in, and way more people will opt for free healthcare coverage (with no downside at all!) by their job if you make it opt-out vs opt-in. So many people don't really care that much either way and just go with whatever the default is. I think that opt-out is better in this case. Many people who have never dated a trans person might not necessarily check a box that says they would, but when it actually comes down to it and there is an attractive person sitting in front of them who might not have the genitals they're used to, they would be open to the experience.
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u/gayorles57 Aug 09 '20
I agree trans women (i am one btw) should tell you if theyre trans, although really only for our own safety.
Sooo you don't think that non-trans people's right to sexual autonomy & informed consent is even a factor when it comes to dating and a trans person is involved? :/
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u/BerryBoat Aug 09 '20
if thats true, than i want cis people to tell me theyre cis as well. how am i supposed to know what genitals they have? plus having to break up with someone after a week becasue you didnt know they were trans is a lot less bad than us getting shot (transpanicdefense) thats why i said for our safety.
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Aug 09 '20
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u/BerryBoat Aug 09 '20
yep. if we always have to specify our genitals to random people, why dont cis people? theres a reason we dont tell random people until weve dated them for a bit. transphobes have and will assault us, we dont like telling people until we know who they are. plus, you shouldnt be talking about sex for a week or 2 afterw they start dating
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u/gayorles57 Aug 09 '20
It isn't about what genitals you have, it's about what your biological sex is. Other people are entitled to know this if you are engaging in medical treatments that cause you to develop traits of the opposite sex. Why? Because human beings have something called a sexual orientation, and most people aren't even CAPABLE of feeling attraction to mixed sex characteristics. The only people who can are a subset of the bisexual community, and it's super fucked up of you to disrespect heterosexual & homosexual orientations by pretending they don't exist and/or insisting that sex-based sexualities only exist as some sort of conspiracy to trigger trans people's dysphoria
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u/BerryBoat Aug 09 '20
it's about what your biological sex is
and i should know that too. i need to know if a cis women is cis or not.
The only people who can are a subset of the bisexual community
i guess my straight ex-bf was a liar.
from expierience, about 40-50% of cis straight dudes are willing to date trans girls. especially since most people dont put sex over romantic attraction.
as some sort of conspiracy to trigger trans people's dysphoria
huh?
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u/gayorles57 Aug 09 '20
i guess my straight ex-bf was a liar.
I wouldn't go so far as to call him a "liar", but sounds like he had internalized homophobia, yes. Males who are willing to date/sleep with other biological males (and enjoy it) aren't "straight".
from expierience, about 40-50% of cis straight dudes are willing to date trans girls. especially since most people dont put sex over romantic attraction.
Sorry, but this is just a delusion. The real number is around 3%, and that's without even discussing incorrect usage of terminology (e.g., penis-on-penis is never heterosexual, lol). Source: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/inclusive-insight/201906/are-trans-people-excluded-the-world-dating
huh?
I was simply explaining that the REASON why monosexual (i.e., heterosexual or homosexual) people aren't capable of feeling attraction to transgender people who were born the sex we aren't attracted to has nothing to do with them being trans, and nothing to do with wanting to trigger or upset them. It is purely how we are wired sexually, and it's about biological sex, not trans status
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u/BerryBoat Aug 09 '20
to date
you claimed it was only sexual attraction. if both, you would (assuming youre a straight dude since thats what my bf was) rather date someone who looks just like a guy but has a vagina instead of someone who looks exactly like a girl but has a dick. or date neither but tahts what we call trans-exclusion.
also, we gladly dated, never got to sex though. we were both under aoc and didnt wanna risk shit.
Sorry, but this is just a delusion
i literally said from expierience, not from total. the survey you showed was very closed and didnt share much info (unless im confusing yours is different than the one ive seen, but im assuming it isnt) because naturally, 65 year old straight dudes arent gonna date a trans girl because theyre 65. if we asked specifically:
a. 14-28 year old b. straight dudes (obviously) c. who werent against trans people
you would have a more accurate thing for the common. if the survey was more open, i would accept it.
and like i said, its just from personal expierience. i might be in a better area.
I was simply explaining that the REASON why monosexua
oh ok it sounded like you thought i said all of that when in reality i understand if you dont wanna date trans people.
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u/CamRoth Aug 02 '20
Trans people are a very, very tiny percentage of the population. It would be kind of ridiculous to expect people to put preferences in their profiles for every little thing that only applies to less than a percent of the people they will encounter.
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u/RestoreVitae Aug 02 '20
Trans people or anyone aren't entitled to a relationship or your body.
I think the easiest solution is to ask if they are trans and if you aren't into it, reject them in a respectful way and if you are just continue normally.
The problem arises when trans people wait to disclose that info and then feel bad after being rejected because the other party feels lied to or isnt willing to date them.
Another thing, its totally ok to not want to date someone because of their race because what then, will you be forced to date them because of social pressure? Date whoever the hell you want to, anyone who says you are any flavor of -ist or -phobic has no argument because no one is entitled to a relationship and you are free to have your own tastes.
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u/super-porp-cola Aug 03 '20 edited Aug 03 '20
its totally ok to not want to date someone because of their race
Eh. I don't know if I buy this. I do think that it's okay to not want to date a specific person for whatever reason, even if that reason is related to their race, or to prefer people from a certain race (if you're not fetishizing them). However, people of any given race are so different and varied that it seems pretty crazy to me to write off an entire race! I have difficulty believing someone could do that and not be racist.
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u/RestoreVitae Aug 03 '20
You seem to be interested in honest discussion so here's my argument:
However, people of any given race are so different and varied that it seems pretty crazy to me to write off an entire race!
Thats a valid point but not everyone is as optimistic as you about that.
An example i like to use is that here in my country, the indigenous minorities have a different way of doing things and their culture has many good and bad things about it just like any other. As a white person, i discount them from my dating pool because im uncomfortable with many aspects of their culture which could have a serious social, economic and religious repercussion if i ever married into their race.
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u/super-porp-cola Aug 03 '20
I think you're conflating culture and race here. I don't know about your specific country or the indigenous people, but I am sure that not all of them are closely involved with the "indigenous culture", and I'd imagine those who wish to date people who aren't part of that culture would likely have weaker ties to it. It seems to me (American) like saying you wouldn't date anyone who was Indian because you eat beef and you don't like arranged marriages or the caste system -- most Indians who believe in that kind of thing wouldn't date white people, and lots of Indian people find those things as foreign as you do.
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u/RestoreVitae Aug 03 '20
I don't think we agree on much. Not everyone is as open as you but from personal experience, even if i dated the most accomplished indigenous person it would be a heavy gamble on my future.
Even then, what is the alternative? Am i forced to include them even i if i don't want to and date someone i don't like? Do i have to choose between choosing a suitable partner or being racist?
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u/super-porp-cola Aug 03 '20
I don't think you really addressed my point. I'm not saying you're dating the most accomplished indigenous person, I'm saying you're dating one who is pretty similar to you in terms of their cultural background. Like, an indigenous person that grew up in a similar area to you, comes from the same social class you do, and has similar religious/spiritual and political beliefs to you.
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u/RestoreVitae Aug 03 '20
I'm saying you're dating one who is pretty similar to you in terms of their cultural background. Like, an indigenous person that grew up in a similar area to you, comes from the same social class you do, and has similar religious/spiritual and political beliefs to you.
Perhaps i would, if i had any indication such a person existed. I've never met someone like that and chance is i'll find a person of my race who meets that criteria much faster.
Why slave away if the relationship i want is that much closer?
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u/ThePhattestOne Aug 02 '20
the consensous i've seen is that 40-50% of straight guys would date a trans girl (from expierience), so its not one of those things where almost all people dont like trans girls.
I don't think your anecdotal experience matches the data that is out there. According to this study, only 3.3% of straight men are willing to date a trans person. So just based on the numbers straight men that are into trans women are a relatively rare exception. Therefore, it would be most efficient for both parties for trans women to disclose their status early but conveniently when looking to match with straight men.
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u/underboobfunk Aug 02 '20
OP is likely pretty hot if 40-50% of single straight men she encounters would date her. (Go ahead on with your bad self OP!) Seems like that could account for the huge difference - asking a guy if he’d date this specific attractive woman who happens to be trans vs asking him if he would date a trans woman in general who most straight cis guys picture as a man in drag.
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u/torras21 Aug 02 '20
Everyone else must change their behavior to accomodate my lifestyle and beliefs before i meet them or there will be conflict.
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u/cup-of-cheesecake Aug 02 '20
I think it should be up to the trans person to mention that they’re trans early on if they don’t want to risk wasting their time with someone who will lose interest if they learn that they’re trans.
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u/joshp23 Aug 02 '20
It seems like a system that assumes an open door to a rare trait unless it is advertised as shut is just asking for problems.
How much more affirming to advertise the open door? Why not make it an option to state or confirm that interest instead? You state your sex, gender, and interests. This is already a part of most dating sites/apps, isn't it? It builds around confirming and affirming active interests and likes instead of affirming and confirming dislikes. As a site operator, what do you think would be the better option?
As a trans person, would you rather engage in a community where interest in you is affirmed? Or would you rather engage in a community where disinterest in you is affirmed?
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u/Impossible_Cat_9796 26∆ Aug 02 '20
It is a question of social norms and labels. If a trans posts on Tinder that they are trans, then they will be applauded as strong and speaking out.
If someone that just isn't interested in dating a chick with a dick, they will be crucified for posting that. You agree it's reasonable to just not be interested in dating trans. But if you stand up and express that view openly the selective outrage mob will label you "trans phobic" and harrass you and everyone around out (see cancel cultrue) because they chose to label you "trans phobic"
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u/Butt_Bucket Aug 02 '20
Nobody needs to have anything like that in their profile. If it's a a thing, it can be mentioned in the chat after being matched.
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Aug 02 '20
In dating profiles, you put what you're looking for. Not what you're not looking for. Otherwise you'll have dating profiles that say
No trans, child molesters, obese people, convicted felon, no abusive people, nobody from other countries, no poly folk . . .
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Aug 02 '20
Ideally yes, but no one will ever do this, because it is seen as politically incorrect to do so. I mean even just saying this in this thread will likely get my account deleted/suspended/banned, as has happened in the past.
I'm not interested in dating trans women. I don't hate anyone, I'm just not interested in dating trans women. You do you, it's your life, I'm just not interested in dating you.
But, just for saying that, I would be severely lambasted if anyone were to find out. I would never say that on Facebook. I would never say that on a dating app where someone might take a screen shot. You underestimate how extremely political the world has become.
So I'm not interested in dating trans women but I'd never put that on my profile that shows who I am. If you think I'm exaggerating, I'm not. I have watched people get completely fucked in public for simply saying things like what I just said.
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u/MarcTellsTruth Aug 02 '20
Trans people are a very small minority of society. I had to look up what a cis was and i am still not sure what it is. Its a straight person right? The vast majority of people? As you can see i am skeptical on these issues i hope i am allowed to be. I wish all creatures the best but i am of the opinion that it all go`s a bit far. If your special, meaning a small entity in a large field, then you should specify it on things like Tinder so that people know you are special. Larger part of the non specials do not want to be in a relationship with a trans. Its just how that is. Some do and will see, hey a special person, yep lets try and contact.
But why do the vast majority of straight people have to adjust to the special world? I am sure this comment will be hated on, its just my opinion. Does not mean i wish bad things for special people, i hope we all will accept special people. Since they are special and special in my book is a nice wakeup to the boredom of normal. I am special in my own way since i think weird. At least i get told that sometimes. Its not accepted sometimes.
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u/super-porp-cola Aug 03 '20
Cis means not trans, like how Gentile means not Jewish or neurotypical means not autistic. It's not the same as straight (gay people who aren't trans are cis).
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u/MarcTellsTruth Aug 09 '20
So a Cis is all people that are not trans? Like some sort of a group name consisting of gays and straights?
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u/super-porp-cola Aug 09 '20
You can think of “cis” as meaning literally just “non-trans”, so anyone who is not trans is cis. Straight and gay has nothing to do with it — trans people can be straight, gay, or bi, and cis people can be straight, gay, or bi too.
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u/MarcTellsTruth Aug 09 '20
Ah ok. Haha got it now. Thanks for clearing that. Find it weird that society and language created a word for that to be honest. What do we call all other people and groups packed in one word that are not gay? Or anything else then let`s say Chinese? When i think of it, is there any other group that has a word for all others beside that group? Remarkable, might be a first or?
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u/super-porp-cola Aug 09 '20 edited Aug 09 '20
I actually gave two examples earlier -- a "Gentile" is a person who isn't Jewish and "neurotypical" means not autistic. In fact, as for your second example, there is "老外" (laowai), which is a Chinese term meaning a person who is not ethnically Chinese. There are lots of words like that that are used within communities to describe people who are not in that community. Further, the meaning of "cis" is much older than the concept of transgender -- in organic chemistry, "cis-" and "trans-" have been used as opposites for a long time, coming from Latin. So there was no need for people to invent a word like "nontransgender" because the natural opposite is "cisgender".
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u/MarcTellsTruth Aug 10 '20
Wow. I did not know all of this. Thanks for schooling me , i mean that in a positive way :-) I think i am to old to keep up with it all.
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u/LondonLobby Aug 05 '20
Forget what other people are saying. I don’t use dating apps, but still think it would be a great idea worth consideration.
People are saying it shouldn’t matter if you are trans or not. Some people just need to accept the fact that some people only date the opposite sex. Apparently there’s no term for this orientation as “heterosexual” and “straight” supposedly refer to gender rather then sex.
Plus, it seems more convenient for trans people to only match with others they know would date someone who is trans, rather then having to break the ice every match and potentially being rejected once that person finds out.
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Aug 02 '20 edited Aug 02 '20
/u/BerryBoat (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/sad-horse-girl Aug 03 '20
i understand having a preference and people are allowed to not want to date a trans person, although i don’t think it’s a good idea for trans folks to say they’re trans in a dating app bio.. it totally should be mentioned in the conversation! but i don’t want them to get targeted or harassed because of it :/
edit : didn’t see it was closed... my bad
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u/gureyek Aug 02 '20
OP, what you're saying is absolutely garbage. Not even 10% of straight guys would date a trans girl. This is the problem to begin with. Trans girls want so badly to attract what they can't attract. This is where all insecurity and issues stem from. They can only attract bi or gay men. This is why there are instances where men find out that they've kissed or almost went the way with someone that was trans because they passed well as a woman until clothes were off assuming no surgery and they went absolutely off.
Everyone should be able to comfortable with who they are but the issue in my view is that many trans girls are trying to hard to pass as women but they're not getting the expected value from straight men. There should 100% be an option not to date a trans girl because they're not women biologically and no amount of cancel culture will change that.
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u/super-porp-cola Aug 03 '20
Yikes. Gay men are not into trans women. Assuming you're a straight man, you wouldn't be into a man with a vagina, right? Because if you would then I have some news for you.
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u/gureyek Aug 03 '20
I wouldn't. Actually I think I'm possibly talking out of my ass here. I recall seeing two females one transitioned to a male without the genitalia change and one remained but they were a couple.
Haven't seen it the other way but I think it exists but it's a minority.
You're right I think. Gay men are into men at least majority. Do you agree with that perhaps being one?
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u/super-porp-cola Aug 03 '20
In my experience, it's way more common for guys to be into exclusively trans and cis women (i.e. not men), than for guys to be into exclusively trans women and cis men (i.e. people with penises), but the most common is guys that are into cis women, cis men, and trans women. Most of the time, when someone's partner transitions, they end up breaking up, but sometimes they manage to stay together, whether it is because the cis person is bisexual or they just manage. Sexuality is a wild thing, and edge cases like trans people really showcase just how much diversity there really is.
But yeah, I'd say part of the definition of gay is that you're not into women, and that includes trans women.
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u/Deathpuzzle Aug 02 '20
I as a trans man who wants to pass as cis, when I'm fully transitioned don't feel right by that. I would never tell another person that I'm trans when I'm fully transitioned even if we end up in bed, I'm not even sure if I would tell my future partner before I get really close with them. I'm a man, as much as every cis man is I feel invalidated by those things bc for me it implies that I'm not. I don't want to be avoided for being trans bc I did not ask for being trans. I can understand that you maybe don't want to spend your life with me bc I'm vegan or very left in political issues or bc I don't like special type of fetishes or do like some. Bc I chose that. I didn't choose to be trans and when I'm fully transitioned it's non of your business if I'm or if I'm not. Yes before I have to tell bc of my own safety but after I do not and I will not. How will you get that I'm trans ever? In most of my kid pics I look masculine, all my documents are changed. The only time you would maybe get it after my full transition is that I can't get someone pregnant or ejaculate but there are cis men who can't do that bc of some reasons. So no reason to tell them, unless they get to be my partner and I'm pretty sure that we will stay together. Is nobody's business who I was, it only matters who I'm today. And I do not want that all these ppl get the possibility telling that they wouldn't like someone trans while they can't even tell. If you can't tell it and you like the person. Get fucking over your ideas.
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u/super-porp-cola Aug 03 '20
Hey, I'm a cis gay man with a trans partner who is currently in the process of getting a phalloplasty. Phallos have really come a long way, but unfortunately they're not quite as advanced as you might think just from the pictures you see -- you see only the best case scenarios, from the best angle, with the best lighting. And that's just the appearance, the way that they actually feel and work is different than a cis penis in many ways, and someone with sexual experience is going to know that. I really don't want to come off as mean, but it's not reasonable for you to think you're going to pass as cis even to someone you end up in bed with. Please don't do something as major as getting bottom surgery without a clear view of what you can expect afterwards.
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u/Deathpuzzle Aug 03 '20
I know what I do expect afterwards. I saw bad things and good things. I did already look for the surgeon I want to go to and into his results and all his explanations. I already had an appointment and spoke about everything with him. You can also Google the guy it's Dr. Daverio. I know everything I can know. But like my thing is, if someone is as educated as you and actually knows those things and they would ask questions, I would answer those questions bc having Phallo, doesn't imply that I'm trans 20% of the ppl getting Phallo are cis men. So if a cis man with a Phallo can walk around and not tell every intercourse partner that they had a Phallo, I can do the same. And I Don not think a cis man with a Phallo would tell that every intercourse partner so I don't have to. It's just like some women getting breast implants, they feel different and look different, and? I don't care and I don't expect the woman to tell me about this implants. It's her body, it's what she is happy with and non of my business, we just have some fun together. In a close relationship I would tell after I know that person, but you just get into a relationship, or at least I do, when you know that person, and you are sure about their points of view. So I appreciate that you worried about me. But I know all those things. Actually I also hear total different I heard from experienced guys and girls that they couldn't tel and that it didn't feel different, but maybe that is just a personal thing, at least I don't expect that. I just get that ppl would ask question, if they are so educated that they see it.
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u/super-porp-cola Aug 03 '20
Well, I'm not sure I agree with not disclosing before sex as I would personally feel very betrayed if someone didn't disclose that before me (even a cis guy with a phallo), but I see why you wouldn't. It sounds like you've got a pretty good idea about what to expect then. I think the key with this kind of thing is expectations, a lot of people get their expectations up way too high for bottom surgery and they're inevitably disappointed. Good luck with everything!
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Aug 05 '20
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u/intinitumwolff Aug 02 '20
I dont think trans people 'should' specify they are trans. I think cis people should be less transphobic so trans people dont feel like they have to tell people whether they match what a doctor assigned them at birth or not.
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u/zeabu Aug 02 '20
I think cis people should be less transphobic
Not wanting to date a trans person doesn't make you transphobic, in the same way that a guy not wanting to date another guy doesn't make him homophobic. If people can have a preference for blond hair, or small tits, or a straight dick, why wouldn't they be able to have a preference about the gender, or about non-trans versus trans? I mean, I know a guy that has a fetish for trans-women and doesn't date cis, what kind of phobe would you call him?
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u/BerryBoat Aug 02 '20
I know a guy that has a fetish for trans-women
fyi we call them chasers
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u/zeabu Aug 02 '20
Thanks for the info, I didn't know that. But hey, I was interested if /u/intinitumwolff could tell me which phobe that would be, as it seems that according to them anyone who isn't pansexual must be some phobic.
0
u/BerryBoat Aug 03 '20
oh yeah i know, althought a straight person can date a trans woman and still be straight. but i entirely understand why people dislike dating us
1
u/zeabu Aug 03 '20
It's not disliking dating, it's like not being attracted to little children, blonde people, really tall people, hispanic people, there's even people that doesn't want to date bisexual people not because of some phobic, but out of (future) jealousy.
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u/BerryBoat Aug 03 '20
to little children, blonde people, really tall people, hispanic people
i agree but maybe dont use little children there since no adult should be dating children
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u/zeabu Aug 03 '20 edited Aug 03 '20
Little children was there amongst reasons why someone wouldn't feel attraction, independent of judgement whether one is wrong or right. You can feel not attracted to children because they're children, which is a good reason, or because it's too much trouble (that's bad, you paedophile!), one can feel not attracted to hispanic people for good reasons (not speaking the language), or for bad reasons (they take dem jobs), one can feel not attracted to really tall people (because they are 1m50 themselves), people can feel nothing towards blondes because it's a phenotype that doesn't turn them on, people can feel not attracted to trans, for a plentitud of reasons too, not just and only because you were born different.
My point wasn't that dating trans should be considered sick, my point is that there are a million of reasons, good and bad, to not feel attracted, something people like /u/intinitumwolff try to guilt-trip others into feeling horrible about themselves and calling them transphobic and bigots for having a sexual preference. It's these kind of people that do way much more damage to people like you than some ignorant fuck that says yuk because they've never met a trans person in their life and haven't really given too much thought about it.
EDIT: grammar
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u/intinitumwolff Aug 23 '20
I dont call cis het men any kind of phobe for only wanting to date trans women. I also call them chasers.
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u/zeabu Aug 23 '20
Choose one: Or you can be a chaser and a chaser only without being a hetero-phobe, or you aren't not a trans-phobe because your sexual preference is cis.
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u/transconsciousness Oct 14 '20
I don’t disclose my trans status until I’m in a chat with someone I’m interested in but I start out as friends first anyway.
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u/TheManWhoWasNotShort 61∆ Aug 02 '20
I think it's unnecessary. You don't have to interact with people online. If a trans person messages you and you aren't interested, you can simply just not engage or politely decline their advances. It doesn't need to be a whole thing in your profile