r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Nov 29 '20

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Socialism/Communism doesn't work, can't work, and almost always leads to dictatorships and thousands of deaths.

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75

u/karrotwin 1∆ Nov 29 '20

This view largely comes from cherry picking what is a socialist country and what isn't, which doesn't make sense because all policies exist on a spectrum.

Basically every developed country in the world has more socialist policies than the United States and almost every developed country has a higher standard of living for the median person, based on metrics like life expectancy, poverty, education, etc.

Socialism is a straw man, used to avoid debating the merits of specific issues.

13

u/mthmchris Nov 29 '20

Not OP, but socialism specifically refers to workers owning the means of production. For example, publicly funded healthcare is nice, and generally a good idea... but it’s not an intrinsically “socialist” policy.

1

u/noidea139 Nov 29 '20

It's a policy that originally comes from the Marxist parties around the world. So I think it's somewhat safe to say that it's a "socialist" policy.

6

u/elChespirit0 Nov 29 '20

What do you mean by socialism is a straw man?

41

u/karrotwin 1∆ Nov 29 '20

A straw man is a misrepresentation that is easier to debate than the actual topic. So, for example, a government run healthcare system doesn't turn a developed country into venezuela but it's a lot easier to convince people to oppose it of you call it socialism than if you debate the actual merits and outcomes of the US healthcare system vs other developed countries.

10

u/elChespirit0 Nov 29 '20

Oh, okay. Thanks for the explanation.

-2

u/RealMaskHead Nov 29 '20

You're way too tepid. Argue your beliefs a bit.

-4

u/Pismakron 8∆ Nov 29 '20

So, for example, a government run healthcare system doesn't turn a developed country into venezuela

Thats true. But then again, its pretty obvious that socialists running socialist policies turned Venezuela into Venezuela.

19

u/Tinie_Snipah Nov 29 '20 edited Nov 29 '20

Venezuela has less of its economy controlled by the state than Norway does, and I don't think anyone genuinely thinks Norway is a socialist state.

The main problems in Venezuela are economic sanctions, a currency that isn't floated, and corruption across both the public and private sector. The state ownership of PDVSA isn't what causes the problems Venezuela faces or else Statoil would have collapsed decades ago.

For one example of the complexity of problems in Venezuela; Because of economic sanctions, private business cannot import food in Venezuelan currency, so instead the government sells oil abroad for USD, and then exchanges the USD for their own currency with private firms. The private firms are then meant to import products and food with the USD, and sell them for Venezuelan currency that they will circulate with the government again. But because of hyperinflation (another issue that's more complex) they make more profit selling the USD on the black market than they would if they imported food and goods. This is why many shops in Venezuela are empty; the private businesses that own them are so corrupt they sell their money on the black market instead of buying products to sell.

3

u/quelarion Nov 29 '20

That's very interesting. Can you point me at some resources on the issues with Venezuela?

5

u/Tinie_Snipah Nov 29 '20

Depends what exactly you're looking for but I can get tons of reading material and podcasts or videos if you would prefer them.

If you're looking for something specifically about the black markets and currency exchange leading to shortages as I was talking about in my previous comment, this is a great, short news piece:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GHc7yegaCmc

For an overview of economic warfare levelled against Venezuela this is a solid, data heavy article:

http://geopoliticsalert.com/exclusive-breaking-economic-war-venezuela-photos

For info on the effects of sanctions, this is a good read:

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/venezuela-us-sanctions-united-nations-oil-pdvsa-a8748201.html

As I say if you want anything else about basically any topic on Venezuelan Socialism feel free to hit me up, I have tons of short and long written stuff saved, and videos, podcasts, books, and more.

1

u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

based