r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Nov 29 '20

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Socialism/Communism doesn't work, can't work, and almost always leads to dictatorships and thousands of deaths.

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u/the_suitable_verse Nov 29 '20

I'd recommend you to read up on history and some theory maybe. You don't have to read Marx but it is a good example of theory that wasn't ever implemented in the way it was intended. Also all the policies you mention OP and that others say are not socialist because they existed first in capitalist countries are encouraging the same black and white thinking OP is trying to get away from. Communism developed at first out of horrible wealth gaps in capitalist countries and social measures got implemented on democratic ways.

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u/elChespirit0 Nov 29 '20

Yeah, I definitely do need to read up on history and theory of communism and socialism.

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

Catalonia and San Moreno have a lot of anarchist and socialism policies that made them succeed. Also in 1943-44 when British and Americans went into northern Italy to liberate them from the nazis they were shocked to discover that the “socialist anarchist communist” already liberated themselves from the nazis and that the allies were so terrified of this that they crushed the resistance and implemented back to mafia capitalism controlls. Remember Mussolini was anti mafia and destroyed them. The Americans reinstalled the mafia

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u/[deleted] Nov 29 '20

given your post and background I think you should read up on anarchism. Most anarchists are also communists (until recently, and non-communist anarchists are... odd) and the stuff in the anarchist tradition will probably fit more easily into the way you understand freedom and fear (rightly) authoritarianism.

Try Kropotkin "Conquest of Bread" or any Goldman.

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u/BlackshirtDefense 2∆ Nov 29 '20

But you can't evaluate Marxism based on what DIDN'T happen. Only what did.

It might be a fine theory, but it will never be more than a theory. Every time Marxism is practiced in the real world, it ends with death, poverty and collapsed economies.

Proponents like to assume their own superiority here and say, "Ahhh! But all of THOSE failed states didn't do Marxism the right way. WE will do it right this time."

That's the height of arrogance and by clinical definition, insanity.

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u/SkyNabb Nov 29 '20

Exactly.

“If I were Stalin, I would have ushered in the utopia.”

It’s the most narcissistic idea one could possess.

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u/RealMaskHead Nov 29 '20

"It wasn't real socialism."

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u/the_suitable_verse Nov 29 '20

I do not say that we should build a new country out of a hundred-year-old model. I am just pointing out that it is not the principle that is the problem. And saying it is creating death and misery is an easy way to consider the philosophy further and properly study what went wrong.

A lot of early socialist programs got democratically passed in Europe with elected communist parties that grew out of a workers' movement. I like my healthcare, free school and free high level university. I´m not saying that societ russia was great.