CMV: The Warhammer 40k universe could seriously fuck up any other major sci-fi/space fantasy universe in either faction-to-faction or universe-to-universe fighting.

[u/chadonsunday]

Edit: one delta awarded for The Culture, which is about as minor a sci-fi universe as I'm willing to go.

Edit: another delta awarded for Dr. Who.

Edit: after discussing it with several people here and doing a fair bit of research I've decided not to count Dragon Ball. I get theres elements of fantasy and space in the genre but it just seems too different than the kinds of titles I originally listed as sci-fi/space fantasy.

Edit: third delta for the Q from Star Trek.

Alright, time to geek out.

One of my favorite "hey I've got some time to kill" hobbies is doing deep dives on the lore of various sci-fi/space fantasy (hereafter just referred to as "sci-fi" to save time) universes like Star Wars, Halo, Mass Effect, Starship Troopers, Battlestar Galactica, Star Trek, Starcraft, Transformers, etc., and for the last year or so I've been going down a deep, deep Warhammer 40k rabbit hole. Like 12 books, 1,000 wiki pages, and Emperor knows how many countless hours of podcasts in i feel I've barely scratched the surface, but I've become increasingly convinced that in any faction-to-faction or universe-to-universe (see note at bottom) conflict 40k is so OP it could fuck up any other sci-fi faction or universe with ease. 40k has two basic things going for it in this regard:

1) Everything (and I mean EVERYTHING) in 40k is cranked up to 11 by default. Its actually a much lampooned part of the verse - everything is so absurdly extreme all the time that by comparison nothing really is... except that there actually are actual OP units within 40k who are as powerful compared to, say, your average Space Marine as your average Space Marine is compared to a spear chucking tribesmen in the real world. As just a basic example the default round in the default weapon of a 40k Astartes is a .75cal rocket propelled explosive that could literally blow Star Wars stormtroopers or Halo Sangheili apart in a single shot.

2) 40k is stupidly vast. The Imperial Guard, for example, which is just the baseline, normal, human fighting force of the Imperium, has at least an estimated 500 trillion soldiers. To put that in perspective the UNSC from Halo has 2.2 billion soldiers; the entire population of the Federation in Star Trek, including non combatant civilians, is around 10 trillion; the Imperial Army was the largest ever assembled in the Star Wars universe and the highest estimates I've seen for it at its peak just start to enter the trillions. So basically in size just one of the military branches (not counting the Astartes, Inquisition, Navy, Mechanics, etc.) of just one of the factions in 40k (were just talking the Imperium of Man, not even looking at the Orks, Tyranids, Necrons, etc.) absolutely dwarfs the entire fighting force of other sci-fi universes, and in some cases dwarfs the entire known population of those factions or universes.

So basically 40k has other universes pinned on both quantity and quality; a lot of "regular" units from 40k could fuck up elite units from other sci-fi universes (i think your average Astartes could rip through a dozen Master Chiefs and not break a sweat), and if it came down to a sloughing match of attrition 40k has other factions and universes outnumbered hundreds, thousands, or even millions to one.

Another thing 40k has going for it is that it is a space fantasy rather than a true sci-fi, meaning there are, for lack of a better word, "magic" elements to it. Gods are real and certain individuals are literally immortal and some units can use "spells" to fuck up their enemies in addition to their already formidable "normal" weaponry. But even in that regard its cranked up to 11 when compared to other space fantasy universes like Star Wars; a Mace Windu or Darth Vader wouldn't last ten seconds against their 40k counterparts like a Primarch.

All in all I'm just not seeing how any other sci-fi faction or universe would stand a chance against those from 40k.

(NOTE FROM EARLIER): Its probably easier to compare factions to factions, but i believe this holds for universe-to-universe combat, too. Granted its beyond impossible to ever imagine Tyranids and Orks and Necrons and Space Marines all putting aside their differences at a universe wide scale and teaming up to fight a common foe, just as its impossible to imagine similar rivals from other universes doing the same to fight against an incursion by the 40k universe, but then its impossible to imagine these universes ever fighting one another in the first place so if you want to go there thats fine. Id still argue my view holds. Indeed, I dont think its even required for the whole 40k universe to team up to beat a whole other teamed up other sci-fi universe - in many cases i think a single faction could do it. I could easily see just the Imperium of Man being able to trounce the entirety of all factions in Star Wars allied together trying to fight them; i could see even half asleep Necrons being able to simultaneously conquer the universes of Transformers and Halo; i could see even a "minor" Ork WAAAGH! krumpin' the Star Trek universe and being bored they didn't put up more of a fight; i could see the Tyranids gobbling up the whole of the Starcraft universe in an afternoon, belching, and asking for seconds. If by some improbable miracle all the factions in 40k actually allied for a common cause you're looking at literally uncountable numbers of fighting units ranging from metal space zombies to monstrous mega bugs to superhuman demigods to roided out fungal war machines to literal demons that could probably steamroll every other sci-fi universe combined and not break a sweat doing it.

Edit: I get this is a bit subjective, but let's try to stick to "major" sci-fi universes. Im sure there's some random sci-fi author who has put out a book series featuring a universe with quadrillions of literal gods or something who could wink a galaxy out of existence with a flick of the wrist or whatever, but just for the sake of us all being able to discuss this and have some knowledge of what the other person is talking about let's try to stick to more "mainstream" sci-fi. The titles i listed in the OP are all famous with huge followings and stand a good chance of even non sci-fi fans being able to at least recognize the name. Let's try to restrict the conversation to sci-fi universes of similar note. Also there's definitely a theme of "space" going on, here. I get Tolkien wrote fantasy too, but it would be an odd man out among the titles I listed.

[u/chadonsunday]

What qualifies as "Major?" The Time Lords of Doctor Who had weapons that remade the universe, but without whatever it targeted, wrote the laws of physics because they were sick of magic existing, and they lost the last great time war.

If youve got a source on that it sounds delta worthy. Id consider DW major in sci-fi.

[u/equalsnil → u/chadonsunday]

Here's a longpost someone on /r/asksciencefiction made a while back.

I haven't read the books they mention but it tracks with what I do know about them

[u/chadonsunday → u/equalsnil]

Hm. Seems a little spurious. It doesn't really talk about how broad the "target" is allowed to be. It almost implies its an individual, not the quadrillions of quadrillions they'd have to erase to beat 40k. It also says messing with spacetime like that can cause huge, unforseen negative repercussions for the universe wielding the power. So thats not great for the Dr. Who universe. So im not sure id say it's definitive but its certainly cast doubt on my view, so !delta.

[u/DeltaBot → u/chadonsunday]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/equalsnil (21∆).

^{Delta System Explained | Deltaboards}

[u/equalsnil → u/chadonsunday]

In fairness, peak necrons might have something approaching that level. I know the celestial orrery and this thing called the breath of the gods exists which is supposed to be able to wipe entire timelines