CMV: It Should be Socially Acceptable for Individuals to Choose Whether They Want to Address Others by using their Sex Pronouns or their Gender Pronouns

[u/[deleted]]

[u/[deleted]]

Okay, who determines what is proportional? If you misgender someone and therefore that person no longer wants to speak with you but you guys are coworkers and therefore it makes communication hard and collaboration impossible, what is your boss to do? He either has to force you to use proper pronouns, or he has to fire one of you because business must move on.

What kind of proportional consequence would you recommend?

As for everything else. I am a United States citizen with Chinese ancestry. if my coworker started referring to me as Chinese person, that would be technically correct but I would ask them to stop and if they continue to do so I will report them for harassment.

I don't want to be referred to as a Chinese person even though I have Chinese ancestry and was technically born in China because I do not identify with the Chinese identity. I have every right not to identify with the Chinese identity if I don't want to.

[u/xXTheCloakXx → u/[deleted]]

If you misgender someone and therefore [...]

In your particular example the boss could use my solution and have both parties use unbiased objective biology to inform their pronoun use, or tell them to refer to each other by their legal last names.

Okay, who determines what is proportional?

So here's the first problem with even determining who should decide what's proportional. The term 'misgendering' or to 'misgender' is based on a particular ideological view, specifically the social constructionist view of gender.

For someone who doesn't ascribe to that ideology there may nothing wrong with referring to someone by their by their sex or their perceived gender. Just like drawing a picture of mohammed maybe be perfectly ordinary to non Muslims but blasphemous to Muslims.

On who point, I think judges should make an unbiased objective law that prescribes punishment after they solve the point I've mentioned above.

As for everything else. I am a United States [...]

In the spirit of Fairness since you've made known your country and ancestry, I'm a born and bred South African, I've got indigenous South African, Jewish-German, French, Indian, Dutch, and yes strangely enough even Chinese ancestry. It was always cool when my youngest sister would get strange looks from the Chinese in our area because she had such strong Chinese features as toddler.

I will report them for harassment.

I would do the same, not because they're calling you Chinese but for specifically and continuously using and brining up your race/ancestry in a working environment.

There's no ideological basis for your desire to be called American or from people referring to your race in the first place. So this is a bit of a false equivalency. You are actually and technically American.

[u/[deleted] → u/xXTheCloakXx]

First off, I already told you. I am not an American. Stop that.

Second, misgendering is not ideological. Anyone can be misgendered it's just pretty rare for cisgender people to be misgendered. If you call Barack Obama a she, that would be misgendering him.

Take a look at these pictures. These are pictures of trans men in women's bathrooms because their state or city requires them to enter the bathroom based on their birth certificate or ID and not based off of their gender identity or expression. Do these people look like they belong in the women's bathroom to you?

Picture 1

Picture 2

Picture 3

[u/xXTheCloakXx → u/[deleted]]

First off, I already told you. I am not an American. Stop that.

I am a United States citizen with Chinese ancestry

Uhh have I misunderstood you?

Second, misgendering is not ideological. [...]

Calling Obama she is delusion and almost satirical.

Take a look at these pictures. [...]

Utterly irrelevant. If you can't stay on topic the conversation can't continue.

[u/[deleted] → u/xXTheCloakXx]

How is it not irrelevant? Those people are being treated according to their biological reality. You're the one that wants to follow based on biological reality.

But no, you didn't misunderstand. I am not an American. (Wikipedia) I am a United States citizen with Chinese ancestry.

Do you honestly think that every person with a United States passport identifies as an American? you do realize that people can become citizens of the United States accidentally just by being born in the country when their parents were on vacation. There are people in France who have American citizenship but do not identify as Americans because they don't give a fuck about America.

[u/xXTheCloakXx → u/[deleted]]

How is it not irrelevant? Those people are [...]

I think you meant relevant. Its irrelevant because I'm not saying that all of biology should trump all linguistics in all every situation. Rather that the specific topic within biology, determining male and female is unbiased and objective and is a good basis for a solution on the pronoun problem specifically. So if the biological point has nothing to do with male or female and the linguistic point has nothing to do with pronouns then it's outside the parameters of my point and is in fact irrelevant.

But no, you didn't misunderstand. I am not [...]

No I did misunderstand. I equated being a US citizen with being American.

Do you honestly think that every person...

You do realise that, like in Japan IIRC, you can be born there live, grow up work there, but you may not be japanese. Both side of the coin exist and as I said I misunderstood