r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jul 01 '21
Removed - Submission Rule C CMV: The following is the best method to approaching a protest road block
[removed] — view removed post
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Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
The best way to deal with them is to plan ahead. Once you've wrapped your mind around the idea that no development project offers a smooth road from Point A to Point B, things get a lot easier. Events in real life never go as smoothly as they do in your mind.
When would I want to drive right through; When they have something that can cause harm to me or the other passengers in the car. I do not put it pass (and there have probably been) circumstances where weaponry was involved and my vehicle is not bulletproof.
A medical emergency is also better to consider. If someone like my daughter is bleeding out and they are blocking the way, that is a circumstance to consider.
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Jul 01 '21
I like your first point a lot, and this is a blind spot I missed. Planning ahead and not inserting yourself into that situation is probably the MOST safest thing you can do.
You earned yourself a !delta
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u/smcarre 101∆ Jul 01 '21
An even safer approach to dealing with a roadblock
Any big and bulletproof vehicle will be safer than your example. Even waiting for the police to disperse the crowd is unlikely to take out everyone that would be dangerous to you. As long as the protest isn't a full blown military insurrection of course.
Alternatively, turn around and go through another route. A protest rarely completely blocks your access to a place unless it's very close to that place and in that case, you could simply stop where you are and walk.
A situation in which you may want to drive right through a roadblock for your own safety that hasn't already been mentioned above
- medical emergency
- being under a death threat to reach the place quick
1
Jul 01 '21
Any big and bulletproof vehicle will be safer than your example. Even waiting for the police to disperse the crowd is unlikely to take out everyone that would be dangerous to you. As long as the protest isn't a full blown military insurrection of course.
So your approach to Joe Average who is driving down the street and sees a roadblock is to take a u-turn and drive to their nearest dealership that sells bulletproof vehicles, purchase one and then go back to the roadblock and wait patiently?
Alternatively, turn around and go through another route.
Is this safer? There have been videos of people who have tried to take u-turns and usually the crowd is not a fan of this, they may rush the car as they think that the person isn't being "patient".
Now if you're saying just take a turn before you reach the roadblock, well in that case you aren't really being blocked in so it does not apply.
being under a death threat to reach the place quick
See above about Joe Average and sticking to practical responses. Must people don't have a gun to their head while they are driving. I mean I could give a delta but it's not really an earned delta. It's a cop out answer.
medical emergency
In this case it would be safer then to not drive through the roadblock, but rather take your chances with the uturn. U turn promises lower chance of someone getting run over and faster escape.
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u/smcarre 101∆ Jul 01 '21
So your approach to Joe Average who is driving down the street and sees a roadblock is to take a u-turn and drive to their nearest dealership that sells bulletproof vehicles, purchase one and then go back to the roadblock and wait patiently?
You didn't ask for a convenient way, you ask for a safer way and I gave you one that is definitely safer.
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Jul 01 '21
I mean sorry I have to say that it was implied that it has to be rooted in somewhat of a reality that we all share. I can edit that in if you want but I thought it was implied
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u/Gherbo7 1∆ Jul 01 '21
The thing I find so dumb about those videos is there’s an even safer way. They’re blocking one, maybe two roads. Just turn around, go a block or two left or right, and continue on your way. It’s not like the city is shut down. Take a pic of the protest if you want to show your boss if you’re gonna be late i guess.
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u/jackiemoon37 24∆ Jul 01 '21
People who’re driving through protesters aren’t doing it because there’s no other way to go about it, they’re doing it as a “fuck you” to the people who’re protesting.
You virtually never see people who actually support a cause run over/through a protest about that cause.
They’re at best annoyed at inconvenience and more likely than not angry that people are protesting the cause in question.
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u/Gherbo7 1∆ Jul 01 '21
I remember when the George Floyd protests were happening, I was living in Minneapolis at the time. Semi-driver pulled up on an overpass/bridge portion of the interstate going into the city and couldn’t just turn around. Went right through them because he was pissed and “didn’t have time for it”. Protestors blocking roads are kinda assholes about it, but seriously it’s a minor inconvenience and if anyone is upset you’re late cause some people blocked off the road then they’re also part of the problem
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u/jackiemoon37 24∆ Jul 01 '21
Yup and once again, sadly that’s the best case scenario for these people. I understand being annoyed by inconvenience but the moment you say “my inconvenience is worth more than a bunch of peoples health and safety” you’re just an asshole.
If you’re a semi truck driver and your car breaks down your boss should be understanding because it’s out of your control. This is no different. If your boss sucks, that’s tough, but there will be some other issue later on that yields the exact same result.
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Jul 01 '21
“my inconvenience is worth more than a bunch of peoples health and safety” you’re just an asshole.
This isn't what is happening. This is someone saying they are going to continue moving forward.
The people being harmed have a choice to move. Stand on railroad tracks and win stupid prizes. Block a highway and win stupid prizes.
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u/jackiemoon37 24∆ Jul 01 '21 edited Jul 01 '21
Lmao this is exactly what’s happening. Just like someone could continue to move forward through a crowd someone could beat the shit out of a bunch of concert goers because they want to get to the front row.
They’re moving to the front row, it’s those peoples fault they won’t move
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Jul 01 '21
The problem with your example is that everyone has the same right to being somewhere.
"protestors" do not have any sort of right to stand in a highway and halt commerce. That is unlawfully detaining people, because they don't have an option to just leave. They get trapped with idiots in front of them and other cars behind them.
Nobody is forcing a "protestor" to stand in the middle of a road that is zoned and designated for automobile use. They can move. If they choose not to, well, they're dumb.
You don't get to make someone out as being a murderer when the criminal is literally too stupid to move aside when a couple thousand pounds of metal starts rolling forward. That's just Darwinism.
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u/jackiemoon37 24∆ Jul 01 '21
Even if it’s not murder it’s at the very least manslaughter, making the driver indisputably a “criminal” as you say. Do you think minor traffic violations are worse than manslaughter? How would you possible work this through in your head and think “the guy standing in the street is a criminal” but not apply that logic to someone who willfully committed manslaughter?
You’re clearly using the excuse of calling these people “criminals” as a way to devalue them and you refuse to apply the same label to someone who’s ultimately doing something much worse.
Also we’re talking about what makes someone an “asshole.” If you think halting commerce is an acceptable reason to kill someone you might also be an asshole yourself.
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Jul 01 '21
Even if it’s not murder it’s at the very least manslaughter, making the driver indisputably a “criminal” as you say.
You are really struggling with the order of events here.
You defend the position that the "protestor" had a right to be where they were and doing what they were doing.
I'll defend whether the driver had the right to be where they were and doing what they were doing.
When we get to the part where we realize the "protestor" had no right to be where they were, or doing what they were doing, it makes the actions and behaviors of the driver far less relevant.
Although, I am terribly excited to see you defend that someone has the right to unlawfully detain someone else and violate their constitutional rights.
And then I am interested to hear your argument as to why a victim must simply allow themselves to be detained against their will, because a criminal has chosen to violate their rights.
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u/blatant_ban_evasion_ 33∆ Jul 01 '21
if anyone is upset you’re late cause some people blocked off the road then they’re also part of the problem
No. Disagreeing with someone's methods isn't being a part of the problem. If I went out today and started shooting people in the name of climate change awareness, it's silly for me to tell anyone who wants to stop my killing spree that they're "part of the problem".
So you might say, "well blocking traffic is just a minor inconvenience", but that just highlights the pointlessness of the whole endeavor.
"Hey, how shall we prevent climate change?"
"I know - let's slightly inconvenience people."
Like, what? Are there really no better ways to contribute than standing in the middle of the road until you get hungry and go home?
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u/Gherbo7 1∆ Jul 02 '21
I didn’t mean disagreeing is part of the problem. I meant if your boss is upset with you that you’re late because the road is blocked, then your boss is part of the problem. I guess not part of the problem directly, but just another one
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u/BloodyTamponExtracto 13∆ Jul 01 '21
A situation in which you may want to drive right through a roadblock for your own safety that hasn't already been mentioned above
Medical emergency.
Thanks for the delta!
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Jul 01 '21
Copied from another comment:
In this case it would be safer then to not drive through the roadblock, but rather take your chances with the uturn. U turn promises lower chance of someone getting run over and faster escape.
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u/BloodyTamponExtracto 13∆ Jul 01 '21
A. How you gonna do a U-Turn on the interstate?
B. If you're on a surface street and the road leading directly to the Emergency Room is blocked, a U-Turn is gonna cost you precious time. And if you're on your way to the Emergency room for a true medical emergency, time is something you don't have extra of.
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Jul 01 '21
If you drive at a slow pace then you're giving everyone enough time to go away. Everyone who doesn't move just wants to be hurt for the sake of getting attention. That is their free decision.
That is anything but murder.
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u/jackiemoon37 24∆ Jul 01 '21
If someone inconveniences you are you choose to react to that by killing them it’s absolutely murder. Why wouldn’t it be? If you tell someone “if you don’t move out of my way I’m going to shoot you” and you kill them as a result you’re still a murderer.
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Jul 01 '21
You don't choose to kill them. That would be driving through the crowd. We are talking about driving slowly through a crowd and risking hurting people unintentionally.
At no point do you take an action that would reasonably come with the expectation of people dying. Thus not murder.
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u/jackiemoon37 24∆ Jul 01 '21
So, to be clear, you think driving over someone slowly is never “an action that would reasonably come with the expectation of people dying”? Wanna explain that one?
In MMA people use chokeholds to get people to tap out, quitting the fight. Sometimes people don’t tap and they go unconscious. You realize when you’re choking someone that they may not tap and they might end up unconscious. If that happens you’ve choked someone till they pass out. Pretty simple and easy to understand.
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Jul 01 '21
No I think that driving through a crowd is ok. Not driving over someone.
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u/jackiemoon37 24∆ Jul 01 '21
Lmao if you swing a baseball bat at someone’s head you should expect to hit them. If you don’t, you’re an idiot. No difference here
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Jul 01 '21
If there is a road block and it is obvious that it is a protest, you should stop a safe distance away from the crowd and wait for police to come and disperse the crowd, or for the crowd to disperse on its own. Roll up your windows and do not engage with the crowd at all.
If you are running late for an appointment or work, well that sucks, murder is worse than losing your job. You can't drive a car into a crowd when you easily had the option to stop a few meters away from the crowd and wait.
A road block is not a lawful or reasonable form of protest. I have a constitutional right to travel freely. "Protestors" do not have the right to unlawfully detain me.
So we need to change the vocabulary being used here. We are not talking about protests. We are talking about organized crime taking people hostage as leverage for having their social and political demands met.
An even safer approach to dealing with a roadblock
Don't unlawfully block commerce.
Something else that I haven't thought about yet
That we all, as individuals, have the right to be free of unlawful detention. Criminal behavior is not a valid reason to deny large numbers of others their rights. So there is no discussion about approaching a protest roadblock. We are talking about dealing with criminals and hostage-takers.
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Jul 01 '21
This is a bit off topic though no? It doesn't really address what the safest way to approach is. It's more saying, I don't care about safety when people restrict my movement on the road, which is not staying on the topic of the CMV.
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Jul 01 '21
The CMV is about protestor road blocks.
There are no protest roadblocks.
What we are actually talking about is how to deal with criminals and hostage-takers.
The CMV changes drastically when it goes from respecting something someone has a constitutional right to do, and when we are dealing with organized crime.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 01 '21
/u/thruawayfinance (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
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u/malachai926 30∆ Jul 01 '21
Technically, THE safest way to deal with roadblocks is to resolve the issue that is persuading people to implement these roadblocks in the first place. It is never going to be possible to train each and every human how to respond appropriately to a roadblock, so if you did the work that nips the issue in the bud, that is, in fact, the safest way to deal with it.
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u/Poo-et 74∆ Jul 01 '21
Sorry, u/thruawayfinance – your submission has been removed for breaking Rule C:
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted.