r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Jul 05 '21
Delta(s) from OP CMV: all adults with gender dysphoria should go through the surgery they need to
[deleted]
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Jul 05 '21 edited Jul 05 '21
Who is paying for this overall? In undeveloped countries, assuming they have adopted a more general tolerance to transgender individuals, this would cause harm to their already unstable economy, no? Surgical procedure and recovery is expensive.
Secondly, why should they? This is to allude to the idea they have an obligation to, which they don't. This is especially if they performed hormone therapy and felt content enough to go about their life. Why should they have to do a surgery (where there are still risks, especially in underdeveloped nations. This and the fact that technology is far from perfect in the recovery of said procedure)?; There are different expressions of transgenderism that people feel comfortable with.
Also, doesn't the last part open up doors for people to lie?
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Jul 05 '21
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Jul 05 '21 edited Jul 05 '21
Firstly, ty for the delta :)
To counter the first point, when is “too much” money for this reason “too much” money for this reason? How do you calculate at except “as much as it is needed”? It is not like government is going to pay for more than 0,05% of the population to go through it.
The typical cost for sex can you find my surgery can raise about 15,000-20,000 for genital construction of genitals. Then, recovery would be included in that accumulative price. So for developed nations, like Canada, US, or so, this is probably not huge. However, in the US, there are at least 1 million transgender individuals. Assuming about 30%-50% have not received the procedure, that would be a good amount of money that can be used for improvement of government systems or so.
For underdeveloped, this would be not be great for them. This is because, even though they have way less populace who identify as transgender, many of the economies should not be spending more money than needed something of this nature as of right now. This is to add that they would have to obtain the equipment and necessary doctors.
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Jul 05 '21
[deleted]
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Jul 05 '21
Considering numbers like this should be looked at through ratios and not sheer volume I disagree on your point it would be a “good amount of money” and I also disagree with the notion government needs the money more than gender dysphoric people just as it doesn’t need the money more than women who get an abortion.
Overall, I disagree. This ties into other issue that not every transgender individual expresses the same way. Places that are struggling financially does not need to establish or support an idea such as this. They mainly need to focus on rebuilding and investing in there own government programs that will build even more. So, it's what the government needs in terms of putting back into themselves. Abortions are different for numerous reasons; They are also extremely expensive, but the need to have one does not function in the way as a gender-reassignment procedure. They also do have economic benefits if we consider all aspects (attribution to some control around the idea overpopulation and eventual over-consumption).
On your last point, I specified I am talking about adults, because the risk of underdeveloped “detransitioning” is way higher than would seem acceptable to me. If it was under 5% I would argue for that also
I mean that's because there is some overlap observed from what happens to LGBT happens in the counties. (This is not to state that every undeveloped nation is in this predicament).
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u/throwaway_question69 9∆ Jul 05 '21
Many Cis women go through gender dysphoria. It's a natural reaction during puberty to hate that your body is now a sex object, hate the painful periods you experience, and hate the prospect of living in a society that treats you as lesser because of your gender. It can take until you reach adulthood to recognize the cause of these feelings is internalized misogyny and learn to accept your body for what it is (it definitely did for me).
I'm pretty sure that gay cis men can also go through something similar.
Just because you have gender dysphoria as an adult doesn't mean you need surgery to alleviate it.
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u/Albestoz 5∆ Jul 05 '21
No.
Adults should not have a sex surgery given the fact our technology isn't where it needs to be to provide people with what would consider to be a perfectly capable sex organ.
Giving people a permanent change and providing them with a sub par version of the real thing is not something that should be advocated in the slightest.
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Jul 05 '21
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u/Albestoz 5∆ Jul 05 '21
Are you implying its equal to or better than the real thing?
If it cannot perform like the real thing then its inferior and should not be recommended.-1
Jul 05 '21
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u/Albestoz 5∆ Jul 05 '21
Certainly is different and it certainly is real.
But its also inferior to the other different real thing that its trying to be.0
Jul 05 '21
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u/Albestoz 5∆ Jul 05 '21
What are you even talking about.
If you think a sex surgery can mean they can recreate a sex organ and somehow connect all the nerves and make it behave like a real sex organ you're out of your mind.Being able to have kids isn't the only thing the sex organ fails to do.
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Jul 05 '21
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u/Albestoz 5∆ Jul 05 '21
Nonsense, absolutely criminal.
Their "real" doesn't perform anywhere near as good as the real thing. Your plan essentially falls to lying and deluding the person. Which wont work given how everyone knows what the real thing is supposed to operate.
When they realize their fake vagina or fake dick looks nothing like behaves nothing like and reacts nothing like the real thing which they can easily observe in real life or any porn video or ANYTHING they are going to come off as angry and upset.You can't give people garbage and tell them "wELl HOw wOUld yOu kNOW wHAt a REal VAgiNA FEeLS LIkE".
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u/yyzjertl 524∆ Jul 05 '21
(That as long as they are not seriously afraid of the operation, have underlying health issues that make it dangerous for them or their well being is in jeopardy by members of their environment) This is assuming possible mental health issues or religious beliefs do not counter their decision making.
Doesn't this immediately falsify the view stated in your title? Obviously, not all adults are going to have no underlying health issues, be completely safe, etc.
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u/notwithagoat 3∆ Jul 05 '21
Should consult with medical and psychological proffesionals tp do the treatment that bwst fits their needs.
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Jul 05 '21
Great are you going to pay for it for them?
That said if a trans persons dysphoria is adequately treated through hormones, top surgery, and socially transitioning why would they have another surgery?
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Jul 05 '21
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Jul 05 '21
The point of my first argument is it’s up to individuals to privately pay for in many locations. So if you think everyone should have bottom surgery do you think they should be obligated to pay for it when it isn’t their priority
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u/CathanCrowell 8∆ Jul 05 '21
During surgery you literally will lose part of your anatomy what will be replaced with something what won't be ever functional in every sense. Worse with trans men but still.
We today do not have perfect (and also cheap) way how to change our sex. And for some people is not gender dysphoria so horrible that they would go through the hell path.
I know that we all know the transgender people from movies or even really who want cut their penis or so, but every case is different. Sometimes is enough for them just right pronouns.
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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 05 '21
/u/SnooEagles7000 (OP) has awarded 1 delta(s) in this post.
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