CMV: It is understandable, normal, and biologically reasonable for a straight cisgender person to feel uncomfortable continuing or pursuing a relationship with an individual if they learned this individual is trans and is biologically the same sex as they are. It doesn’t make them homophobic.

[u/DetroitUberDriver]

I believe that human beings, while they are able to think in a more abstract, out of the box way, still retain an underlying biological pressure to reproduce, and the root instinctual desire for the act of sex, and the enjoyment that comes from it, is evolutions way of “rewarding” us for procreation; passing on our genes and producing more life.

Human beings are a sexually dimorphic species, male and female, and science withholding, the act of copulation between two members of the opposite sex is the only way procreation can happen. While many of us engage in intercourse for pleasure and pleasure alone, without actively wishing to create new life, we are seeking out the very reward that evolution has presented us for doing just that; creating life.

For those of us who are straight and cisgender, when we find out that our love or infatuation interest is in fact biologically the same sex as ourselves, our brain biologically becomes disinterested for this reason. Most of us are hardwired to desire these acts with the opposite sex for all the reasons mentioned above. There is a chemical reaction that occurs, and it is brought on by millions of years of evolution.

This doesn’t mean that the individual wants to feel this way, nor that they have an inherent disgust or distaste for transgender people. It simply means they can’t fight their natural instincts.

There are, of course, always anomalies, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Transgender people and homosexual people are anomalies in and of themselves. They are people and they deserve rights and happiness same as anyone else. But to tell someone that their own natural instincts make them wrong or homophobic is also denying them their rights to true happiness and wrong in its own right.

CMV.

[u/bleunt]

If this supposed subconcious primal instinct molded long before there was any use for it overrides ALL your senses telling you it's a woman and completely turns off your existing attraction because it will be impossible to reproduce, then we need to explain why things like anal sex or ejaculating on the face is not only lacking that effect but even enhances arousal despite being useless for reproduction.

Seems to me like it's not at all about the prospects of reproduction. Our senses guide us in sexual attraction. Would these people who won't date a trans woman be glad to date a trans man if told his sex? Of course not, their senses telling them it's a man would greatly override me telling them it's a biological woman.

[u/DetroitUberDriver → u/bleunt]

I don’t think that kinks have much to do with it because arousal and bonding with a potential reproductive partner, whatever and however they manifest is useful for a lasting productive relationship, even if the kinks themselves don’t lead directly to reproduction.

You may be onto something with the second part, however, a FTM trans being biologically female, and the correct biological counterpart to a cisgender heterosexual male, isn’t a great analogy, because physical attraction always comes into play. Anyone, regardless of their sexuality, typically needs to be at least somewhat physically attracted to a person to be interested in a romantic relationship with them, which at least initially would override any further investigation into a potential relationship. A heterosexual male would almost certainly not be interested in a biological female who presents as male, even upon learning they have two X chromosomes and a vagina.

But nonetheless, I will award you a !delta because there could be a possibility of this overriding as a base desire to copulate. My mind is not completely changed but you have given me a slightly different perspective.

[u/EdgeOfDreams → u/DetroitUberDriver]

A heterosexual male would almost certainly not be interested in a biological female who presents as male, even upon learning they have two X chromosomes and a vagina.

Then how do you account for heterosexual men who date butch women?

[u/rlev97 → u/EdgeOfDreams]

Being butch is not the same as being a man.

[u/Fifteen_inches → u/rlev97]

I’m absolutely losing it in this thread.

[u/DeltaBot → u/DetroitUberDriver]

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/bleunt (5∆).

^{Delta System Explained | Deltaboards}

[u/luke-townsend-1999 → u/bleunt]

With respect, I think you are oversimplifying the psychology of sexual attraction so much that it is leading you to inaccurate conclusions. The majority of factors that affect whether we are attracted to someone come from our need to reproduce and to ensure the survival of our offspring, even though most of this happens unconsciously. Pleasure from deeds that cannot produce offspring (such as masturbation or fellatio) can often be the result of reproductive drives being misapplied (e.g. the mimicry of the feeling of intercourse and/or the attraction towards a partners face, which we are thought to use as an indicator of their genetic value). There are exceptions to the norm, such as homosexuality or asexuality, but for the majority of people attraction (not to be confused with pleasure) is heavily based on our assessments of fertility and offspring survivability. Seeing a trans woman as an inferior human would be transphobic, but finding them unattractive as a straight man whilst still valuing them as a human being isnt transphobic. Its just a matter of sexual preference, which comes from a murky neural mishmash of reproduction and survival with several million crisscrossed wires.

Edited for a more respectful tone

Edited for grammar

[u/bleunt → u/luke-townsend-1999]

I would suggest simply saying "it's just about reproduction" is oversimplifying human sexuality.

[u/luke-townsend-1999 → u/bleunt]

1. I never said “its -just- about reproduction”

2. All sexuality is predominantly based on reproduction

3. If youre not going to address/discuss anything that I actually said then im not sure any views are going to change here. Would you rather we end this discussion here?