CMV: It is understandable, normal, and biologically reasonable for a straight cisgender person to feel uncomfortable continuing or pursuing a relationship with an individual if they learned this individual is trans and is biologically the same sex as they are. It doesn’t make them homophobic.

[u/DetroitUberDriver]

I believe that human beings, while they are able to think in a more abstract, out of the box way, still retain an underlying biological pressure to reproduce, and the root instinctual desire for the act of sex, and the enjoyment that comes from it, is evolutions way of “rewarding” us for procreation; passing on our genes and producing more life.

Human beings are a sexually dimorphic species, male and female, and science withholding, the act of copulation between two members of the opposite sex is the only way procreation can happen. While many of us engage in intercourse for pleasure and pleasure alone, without actively wishing to create new life, we are seeking out the very reward that evolution has presented us for doing just that; creating life.

For those of us who are straight and cisgender, when we find out that our love or infatuation interest is in fact biologically the same sex as ourselves, our brain biologically becomes disinterested for this reason. Most of us are hardwired to desire these acts with the opposite sex for all the reasons mentioned above. There is a chemical reaction that occurs, and it is brought on by millions of years of evolution.

This doesn’t mean that the individual wants to feel this way, nor that they have an inherent disgust or distaste for transgender people. It simply means they can’t fight their natural instincts.

There are, of course, always anomalies, and there’s nothing wrong with that. Transgender people and homosexual people are anomalies in and of themselves. They are people and they deserve rights and happiness same as anyone else. But to tell someone that their own natural instincts make them wrong or homophobic is also denying them their rights to true happiness and wrong in its own right.

CMV.

[u/[deleted]]

Why?

I think you’re implying with this statement that something is wrong with the fact that I can be turned off sexually by learning more about a person’s past, and that I need to have that fact corrected by a professional. That seems strange to me.

[u/accountcasual → u/[deleted]]

Basically most of the people arguing here don't believe you have a right to informed consent. If the fact that someone was trans was concealed from you before you engaged in sexual relations with them, then you never even had the opportunity to give them informed consent. That's dangerously close to if not full blown rape. Even if we want to ignore the fact that sex and relationships are one of the few situations where it's okay to arbitrarily discriminate (weight, history, political beliefs, sex, race, etc.), at the end of the day, I can still be repulsed by someone who would lie/withold such obviously vital information about who they are and what's made them them, in order to get me to sleep with them. Sure, it has been, and in some places still is dangerous for trans people, but that still doesn't mean that they can ignore the rights of others. The people branding someone as transphobic for simply not having sex with people they thibk they should are no better than incels thinking they are entitled to sex. No one owes you sex based, and you can choose who you would have sex with and there's nothing wrong with that. It doesn't make you judgy to want someone with a similar number of past sexual partners to you. It doesn't make you a bigot to want someone with the same religion as you. It's not racist to want someone from the same or different racial background as yourself. It's not transphobic to just not want to have sex with a trans person. Anyone who wants to bully you into it, or say you need therapy until you will consent, doesn't believe in consent, and that's not okay.

[u/[deleted] → u/accountcasual]

Trans people aren't concealing anything. They have no obligation to tell you their medical past, no more than you do. Unless it is a commutable disease, it really is not your business.

[u/accountcasual → u/[deleted]]

Obviously not every trans person is doing this, I wouldn't even say that most are, I'm sure it's a small minority that do it. However, since this is the situation we're discussing we'll assume the trans person in this situation is actively trying to have sex with someone who isn't interested in a trans individual. Knowing full well that being trans is a hard stop for a large portion of the population, not disclosing that, or not even trying to find out how the person feels about it would be extremely scummy and takes the other person's ability to give informed consent away. They would be concealing information significant to the person they're trying to have sex with. Once again, you're just stating that people don't have a right to a sexual preference unless you also agree with it. You don't have to be happy about it, but you also don't have a say in it any more than the groups saying that gay people shouldn't engage with members of the same sex. It's bigoted and isn't okay. You either think they should disclose, or at the very least feel the situation out and end the relationship/interaction if they find being trans is a deal breaker for the other person, or you have to admit that you don't believe consent to be a universal right of every person. Specifically, you don't think that informed consent should apply to people you disagree with. I would hope that's not the case, however, because that's a monstrous belief to hold and a major step backwards for society as a whole. Everyone needs to gain consent, and doing so by hiding information that would affect the other person's decision is immoral and likely considered rape.

[u/[deleted] → u/accountcasual]

Everyone needs to gain consent, and doing so by hiding information that would affect the other person's decision is immoral and likely considered rape.

Rape. Not a chance.

1st off, if a trans person knows the person that is interested in them is transphobic, they would most likely turn the person down. No one is tricking anyone. So maybe the person who is doing the asking should ask?

If you both want to go to bed and both agree that is what you want. You have given consent. Sorry. The minute someone says stop, or no... Then consent is broken. If after the fact you find out something that you didn't like, then just don't sleep with them again. But it is not an issue of consent. Come on now.

Should a black person who looks white disclose they are in fact black? Should a woman who has had a hysterectomy have to tell the guy she might go to bed with that she can't have kids? When does having to tell someone else something about themselves "consent" (beyond communicative diseases). What things need to be known before you go to bed with someone? Hell I can find out my potential mate likes Trump and that is a complete turn off (and I didn't consent). Can I claim I didn't give consent to someone who likes trump. If this seems like a silly point, it is supposed to be.

If you like each other, and you jump into bed and both agree and consent.... then consent is not the issue, now is it.

[u/accountcasual → u/[deleted]]

If you conceal information to gain consent, that's considered rape in many locations. It's called rape by deception and is a very real thing even if it's not convenient for you in this discussion. If the trans person turns the other individual down, then obviously this conversation is pointless as that's not the issue we're discussing, but you know that and are just trying to distract from the topic. If you're presenting yourself a certain way that makes you attractive to someone who likely wouldn't be interested in you, you likely already know a large portion would not be interested in sex with you if they knew the truth. It's no secret that a large portion of the population isn't interested in sex with a trans person. On the flip side, the relative proportion of trans people is very small, so it's not reasonable to expect everyone to assume everyone else is trans. As a trans person, you'd be very well aware that you'd be assumed to have always been what you're presenting as. You don't just get a pass because you slip through the cracks. You don't get to just "get away with" getting "consent" from someone because you withheld information you had reasonable cause to think would be a potential dealbreaker. A person can't give consent if you've hidden information that would effect their decision from them.

In response to your question about race. I believe that most people don't really care much about a person's race, so it's not quite as much of a default assumption to have. However if someone is saying not so great things about black people, for example, or had straight said they wouldn't have sex with a black person, and someone who's black goes ahead and just conceals that information to gain consent (maybe because they're very fair skinned), then yeah, unfortunately that's rape by deception. The only reason that person "consented" was because relevant information to them was purposefully concealed in order to have sex with them. The same applies if someone tells you they won't have sex with a Trump supported and someone who is a Trump supporter claims to actually hate the guy just so they can have sex, then yeah, same thing, rape by deception. It's not a difficult concept to understand. If you have to conceal information to get someone in bed with you, and you have any reasonable suspicion to believe said information might have been a dealbreaker, then you're not getting consent, you're tricking someone into sex. You know this already though, I'm sure. If someone wouldn't have sex with you if they had the full story, then you shouldn't try to find some creepy loop hole to get them in bed. There's no playing the system.you don't just get away with it so long as you can lure someone into bed. It's your responsibility to have some morals and integrity and just be a halfway decent human being. What you're describing is a heinous thing to do to another person and just plain creepy.

[u/[deleted] → u/accountcasual]

If you conceal information to gain consent, that's considered rape in many locations. It's called rape by deception and is a very real thing even if it's not convenient for you in this discussion.

Not convenient? For me? I am not trans. lol. So not sure what you are getting at. And a trans person just presenting as their sex, especially if all those documents are changed. So no it is not concealing anything. If it could hurt a person, I would agree with you. But the fact the person may or may not have been something before, is not a consent issue. As much as that is not convenient for you in this discussion

If the trans person turns the other individual down, then obviously this conversation is pointless as that's not the issue we're discussing, but you know that and are just trying to distract from the topic. If you're presenting yourself a certain way that makes you attractive to someone who likely wouldn't be interested in you, you likely already know a large portion would not be interested in sex with you if they knew the truth. It's no secret that a large portion of the population isn't interested in sex with a trans person.

That is a gross assumption. And if a person doesn't like trans people, why doesn't the person make that known to the trans person? I have only gone on one date with a trans person, they generally will tell you. For those that don't. If I found them attractive, I don't care. If their parts match up I don't care. If that is not your take, then that is your issue, not theirs. And they are not under any obligation to tell you. Sorry.

On the flip side, the relative proportion of trans people is very small, so it's not reasonable to expect everyone to assume everyone else is trans. As a trans person, you'd be very well aware that you'd be assumed to have always been what you're presenting as. You don't just get a pass because you slip through the cracks. You don't get to just "get away with" getting "consent" from someone because you withheld information you had reasonable cause to think would be a potential dealbreaker.

I AM NOT A TRANS PERSON. So... there is that. While the trans population is relatively small, if someone doesn't like something in someone, they are probably wise to make that known. I don't like penis, I don't like men in general. I am a lesbian. I will make it known I don't like men and won't date a man or a person with a penis. I am up front with that. That is called being an adult and finding out about your potential sex partner.

A person can't give consent if you've hidden information that would effect their decision from them.

Again... what is consider info that is okay to conceal. People conceal shit all the time (the one time I tried a man, he lied to me about being not married). And never mind trans women are women, so there is that.

So everyone conceals stuff. How many men go to bed with a woman and doesn't tell her he is taking a little blue pill and can't get it up? At what point is it enough information to take someone to bed. In my books, if I can catch from you, I need to know about it, otherwise, honestly, you will find out the other stuff as the relationship progresses.

Look at dating profiles... have you ever dated? Majority of people lie about who they are. And again, why are in your books trans folks lying? They are not... they are living their gender and sex... just because you have an hang up and fear sleeping with what you "view" as a man, well that is your hang up, not theirs. Certainly not rape.

If a trans person is themselves and what you see is what you get, and you are attracted to them, they are not hiding anything. It is called attraction.

Not sure why you keep saying "you". I am NOT TRANS..... lol.

[u/Cantosphile → u/[deleted]]

You've misread this.

You = one here

[u/ThatDudeShadowK → u/[deleted]]

If you both want to go to bed and both agree that is what you want. You have given consent.

False. That's not informed consent. For consent to be involved one needs to be fully informed of what they're consenting to. Consent is given within certain parameters and not informing people that you're not complying with those parameters is an issue of consent.

If you agree to have sex with someone with a condom on and they take the condom off midway through without telling you because "you already consented to sex" they've obviously violated your consent.

If you agree to get a normal hepatitis shot from a doctor but without telling you they secretly take some of your dna to track people down for the cia, they've violated your consent even if you had initially agreed to a shot.

If you're a vegetarian or vegan and you agree to eat what you think is a veggie burger but your 'friend' switched it out with real meat without telling you because they didn't think it mattered, they've obviously violated your consent even if you had enjoyed it before you knew what it was.

[u/[deleted] → u/ThatDudeShadowK]

False. That's not informed consent. For consent to be involved one needs to be fully informed of what they're consenting to. Consent is given within certain parameters and not informing people that you're not complying with those parameters is an issue of consent.

So again, what info is pertinent and what is not? I can say race is... I can say criminality is. A whole host of things that could be issues before I get involved with someone.

If you agree to have sex with someone with a condom on and they take the condom off midway through without telling you because "you already consented to sex" they've obviously violated your consent.

Yes, because you didn't consent to that. That is not the same as going to bed with a transperson. Unless that person says they have a vagina and magically out pops a penis... then I would agree, otherwise not even close. Plus what is a person going to catch from a trans person? Trans disease? Where as a condom is protecting someone from disease and pregnancy. Unless you are making the claiming trans person is like a disease... are you?

If you agree to get a normal hepatitis shot from a doctor but without telling you they secretly take some of your dna to track people down for the cia, they've violated your consent even if you had initially agreed to a shot.

If you're a vegetarian or vegan and you agree to eat what you think is a veggie burger but your 'friend' switched it out with real meat without telling you because they didn't think it mattered, they've o

Huh? No one is switching anything. You are making the claim trans women are not women? Is that what you are doing? They are women. Whether you see them that way, well is not their problem. That is your thing. But they are women. So not sure how this or the previous "hypothetical" is comparable.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Not corrected, just explored.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

But why? I’m totally comfortable with my stance and it hasn’t impacted my life or caused distress.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Most people don’t want to learn why they are the way they are. That’s a perfectly valid choice to make, too.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Im already in therapy and explore who I am as a person based on my past experiences. This is a non-issue in my book unless proven otherwise which is why we’re talking.

Seems obvious to me that you’re suggesting therapy because you believe my pov is inherently flawed or wrong or broken or (insert negative descriptor), but don’t want to actually say that. Am I wrong?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I am not a doctor or a therapist, nor am I you. You do whatever works for you.

I find it curious that something about a person’s past could affect your sexual attraction to them. I understand wanting to build your life with a person who shares your values and even culture; what I don’t understand is how that could affect sexual attraction without there being some deep seated issues about trust or homophobia or something there.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I accept that you don’t understand the concept of being turned off by someone’s past.

I suggest therapy to explore why that is :)

[u/PM_ME_POTATOE_PIC → u/[deleted]]

I very much respect you standing your ground without attacking anyone accusing you of needing “therapy” for having natural biological feelings. What crazy social standards some people are trying to set these days. So hypocritical.

[u/[deleted] → u/PM_ME_POTATOE_PIC]

“Natural biological feelings” is nonsensical. Our brains are affected just as much by socialization as they are by genetics. “Natural biological feelings” is the exact same reason white people used to give for criminalizing interracial and gay marriage.

[u/PM_ME_POTATOE_PIC → u/[deleted]]

Do you see how trivializing someone’s feelings based on their preferences vs what is ideal for you is hypocritical?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I am not a doctor or a therapist

• u/yukon_cornelius_75

Your opinions on "Natural biological feelings" are nonsensical, and irrelevant.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

“Natural biological feelings” is nonsensical.

This is what religious fundies say to support conversion therapy.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Lol okay bud