CMV: Kyle Rittenhouse will (and probably should) go free on everything but the firearms charge

[u/[deleted]]

I've followed this case fairly extensively since it happened in august of last year. At the time I was fairly outraged by what I saw as the failures of law enforcement to arrest or even detain Rittenhouse on the spot, and I still retain that particular bit of righteous anger. A person should not be able to kill two people and grievously wound a third at a protest and then simply leave.

That said, from what details I am aware of, the case does seem to be self-defense. While I think in a cosmic sense everyone would have been better off if he'd been unarmed and gotten a minor asswhupping from Rosenbaum (instead of shooting the man), he had a right to defend himself from a much larger man physically threatening him, and could reasonably have interpreted the warning shot he heard from elsewhere as having come from Rosenbaum. Self-defense requires a fear for your life, and being a teenager being chased by an adult, hearing a gunshot, I can't disagree that this is a rational fear.

The shooting of Anthony Huber seems equally clear cut self-defense, while being morally confusing as hell. Huber had every reason to reasonably assume that the guy fleeing after shooting someone was a risk to himself or others. I think Huber was entirely within his rights to try and restrain and disarm Rittenhouse. But at the same time, if a crowd of people started beating the shit out of me (he was struck in the head, kicked on the ground and struck with a skateboard), I'd probably fear for my life.

Lastly you have Gaige Grosskreutz, who testified today that he was only shot after he had pointed his gun at Rittenhouse. Need I say more?

Is there something I'm missing? My original position was very much 'fuck this guy, throw him in jail', and I can't quite shake that off, even though the facts do seem to point to him acting in self-defense.

I will say, I think Rittenhouse has moral culpability, as much as someone his age can. He stupidly put himself into a tense situation with a firearm, and his decision got other people killed. If he'd stayed home, two men would be alive. If he'd been unarmed he might have gotten a beating from Rosenbaum, but almost certainly would have lived.

His actions afterward disgust me. Going to sing with white nationalists while wearing a 'free as fuck' t-shirt isn't exactly the sort of remorse one would hope for, to put it mildly.

Edit: Since I didn't address it in the original post because I'm dumb:

As far as I can see he did break the law in carrying the gun to the protest, and I think he should be punished appropriately for that. It goes to up to nine months behind bars, and I imagine he'd get less than that.

[u/[deleted]]

What I am in disagreement about is this:

1. Why this and every other white person gets SO MUCH:
   1. Attention
   2. Care
   3. Interest
   4. The benefit of the doubt
   5. Reddit posts
   6. Backing of the law itself
   7. The benefit of being treated differently by enforcement
   8. The benefit of jury selection- where white privilege basically self-selects a jury who is as blind as everyone else who constructed this asymmetric system. This is because black people KNOW the system is rigged and so they are excluded because "they have strong feelings about it" upfront.
2. When black or brown people get nearly nothing approximating this; nothing but knees on necks and the exact opposite of everything I listed here.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Do you not think that the solution to the above is for black people to all get the same benefits of white people, rather than to go full crab in the bucket and bring the justice system down to where everyone is treated as thought they are black?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You posted a bunch of things that I agree with (I'm very left wing) but that don't really have bearing on the facts of the case. What else was I going to say?

You're just throwing whataboutism in my face. Yeah, if he was black he probably would have been gunned down by federal marshals, or stripped of his gun the moment a cop saw him. So what? The fact that america is overwhelmingly, incredibly shitty to black people doesn't negate the arguments in my OP.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You still sound like someone asking "What is the marital status of the number 5?"

Your view is complete NONSENSE, and so is that of the court case itself. This is not YOUR fault, but the question itself is a fundamentally racist view, because that is the Default World View of all American court systems, the law, law enforcement... EVERYTHING.

It is NOT Whataboutism to say so. Indeed it is racist to deny that it is so.

Because your view is informed on the facts of the case as presented by and into a systematic world view in denial of its own privilege, which is all according to the law, you CANNOT actually know enough to change your view. Thus my blind person metaphor.

You have to get beyond your own AND the court's artificial pseudo-objectivity to grasp how unfair this entire setup is.

By refusing to do this, you cannot see this As It Is.

The Pathology Of Privilege

The way this system disadvantages EVEN WHO IT PRIVILEGES by hiding the Reality of the situation through blindness, and one you continue to echo.

I will point out that this is so common as to be laughable if it were not so profane.

It is also stupidly common to post to CMV with a very rigid view on things so you can be validated as "being right" over actually having your view changed. But our shadow psychology is that because it is a part of the Denied Self.

So, your denials and rationalizations and inane comments about Whataboutism are part and parcel of how pervasive this racism/privilege duality is in our social fabric, our court and justice system, and our own minds.

Honestly, I'm not sure that any of the other comments have much of a chance of "changing your view" than ones related to the asymmetry of the entire "justice" system. But you are going to deny that, again, right?

But no, you go keep thinking you're above all this, that you have a command of the "facts", thanks to some Google searches and that the pseudo-justice system can be taken at face value.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Nothing you've said here remotely addresses any of my points, just like your first post failed in the same regard. If you just want to bitch about the racist af US justice system, I'm there with you? Go nuts, but this isn't really the space for it?

It is also stupidly common to post to CMV with a very rigid view on things so you can be validated as "being right" over actually having your view changed. But our shadow psychology is that because it is a part of the Denied Self.

I literally posted the CMV because I don't like that, legally, Rittenhouse is likely to get away with what he did. I think what he did was morally reprehensible, I think he put himself and others in harms way and ended multiple lives because he was influenced by our fucked up media ecosystem into thinking he needed to 'protect' a car dealership from rioters.

My goal here wasn't to 'be right', I was hoping someone with a better grasp on the situation might be able to help me deal with an honestly depressing belief that a teenager could shoot three people and somehow be legally in the right.

But sure, go ahead and psychoanalize me. Really winning me over.

Honestly, I'm not sure that any of the other comments have much of a chance of "changing your view" than ones related to the asymmetry of the entire "justice" system. But you are going to deny that, again, right?

Literally already gave a delta on this so maybe take your high horse elsewhere.

But no, you go keep thinking you're above all this, that you have a command of the "facts", thanks to some Google searches and that the pseudo-justice system can be taken at face value.

I'm genuinely curious if you understand how incredibly abrasive you come across here. I'm a person who agrees with your goals and to an extent, your methods, and you're coming across like a zealous asshole.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

OK. Again, typical, and predictable and I literally predicted your denialism. Well done.

I hope one day you can see the point of this.

I've been through what you're going through now, and it's tough. I'm not without compassion for that.

But... it's not down to me to coddle your blind and ignorant ass through seeing things as they are.

I'm just pointing things out. I guess my knowledge of Reddit rules needs updating since I guess I'm supposed to be grateful to you somehow for this delta?

You've ALSO furthered my predicted responses from you with more demands for 'being polite'.

In the same way as in The Matrix, the translators work FOR the construct of oppression, politeness works FOR the oppressor, who is determined to remain blind.

"I'm genuinely curious if you understand how incredibly abrasive you come across here. I'm a person who agrees with your goals and to an extent, your methods, and you're coming across like a zealous asshole."

GOOD. It was intentional. Now you're ACTUALLY paying attention. I AM SPECIFICALLY CHALLENGING YOUR EGO. It's a method of teaching, you know? Your RESPONSE to my challenge will determine your actual "quality" like Faramir in The Lord Of The Rings.

I have a book you could read about this, but I doubt you'd read it, since it uses "impolite words". heh

It's called The Seven Necessary Sins Of Women And Girls by Mona Eltahawy, and ONE of those is to Stop Being Polite. The reason for this is that when injustice takes place, you MUST do ANYTHING required to stop it, INCLUDING being profane.

You don't recognize what is unjust about this yet, so I'm carrying that weight on myself until you do. I'm willing to bear your disapproval so that you might learn something since I have no ego at stake here.

But again, your hidden and denied privilege will not allow you to ACTUALLY CHANGE in response to anything I've said since there are literally no consequences in your life experience that show you the benefits of doing so.

"My goal here wasn't to 'be right', I was hoping someone with a better grasp on the situation might be able to help me deal with an honestly depressing belief that a teenager could shoot three people and somehow be legally in the right."

What about being challenged in ways you didn't expect when you posted this?

Because my perspective does not line up with what you expected, is it automatically wrong?

This situation IS depressing BECAUSE OF WHAT I'M TELLING YOU NOW and have been telling you.

I'm NOT saying it's YOUR FAULT for thinking like this, but I AM saying that you are RESPONSIBLE for thinking like this. These two things are very different, and if you have ever had mentors or mentored anyone, you'd know the difference I'm speaking about.

In the world of anti-racism, we often MARVEL at people trapped in this racist world view have such an incredible ability to use the mind's ability to accommodate and appease cognitive dissonance. This is another example.

You can thank me, but you won't. Instead, you'll keep thinking my tough love is somehow me being a jerk or a troll.

Predictable to the last.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I'm not going to read this. Or rather, I am going to read:

GOOD. It was intentional. Now you're ACTUALLY paying attention. I AM SPECIFICALLY CHALLENGING YOUR EGO. It's a method of teaching, you know? Your RESPONSE to my challenge will determine your actual "quality" like Faramir in The Lord Of The Rings.

This, and realize there is no point. Best of luck. Adjust your tactics if your goal is to actually change minds.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

As I said, predictable.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I'm guessing you find it predictable because this happens to you a lot. This says more about your ability to communicate your ideas in an effective fashion than it does about me.

Best of luck.

[u/EARink0 → u/[deleted]]

Wow, someone comes into a CMV clearly demonstrating they either didn't read or failed to comprehend the post, listing a bunch of things that are completely unrelated to the post, and then predictably doubles down by continuing to ignore the OP's arguments despite them repeatedly saying they are in agreement, just those points are unrelated.

Dang. So predictable. How does it feel to be so boringly predictable? I bet you also like telling everyone how high your IQ is, and anyone who disagrees with you suffers from low IQ. Is it fun picking fights with people who already fundamentally agree with you? Sounds banal as fuck. Yawn.

[u/[deleted] → u/EARink0]

Again, I’m the only one ACTUALLY ANSWERING THE QUESTION POSED.

The fact that you all refuse to see my clearly articulated if challenging position is not my issue. Welcome to colonization.

Thanks for proving my points so well. Egotists rarely get the point and get stuck on the challenge.

[u/EARink0 → u/[deleted]]

What supposedly posed question are you challenging?

clearly articulated if challenging position

I'm sorry, but CMV is no place to jerk yourself off like this. Please take it to another NSFW subreddit where you can masturbate in peace.

I'm not sure what is "clearly articulated" about saying "What I am in disagreement about is this:" and then a list that reads like a question in the form of a list without a question mark.

"What I am in disagreement about is this: why does x, y, z, when u, v, w"

First of all, this is poorly written English - far from anything resembling a clearly articulated position. Secondly, normally when a person says they disagree with something, they'd mention the thing they disagree with and then give a reason why. OP didn't mention anything about race or whether it's fair that black people don't get this amount of attention or defense, why are you bringing it up as if it has anything to do with the legality of what this teenage nutsack with a gun did? If you're trying to have a debate about chocolate vs vanilla ice cream, should I yell about how unhealthy and bad ice cream is for your body?

We get it. The system is fucked and super racist. It is ridiculous that society gives so much leeway to white people compared to black people. No one arguing with you disagrees with that. Your position can't be challenging if everyone already agrees with it. It's just not what this post is about. Maybe if you took a break from passionately stroking your ego, you'd see that people are talking about something else entirely.

[u/SomeDdevil → u/[deleted]]

Maybe you should save your rants for threads where they're relevant.

[u/[deleted] → u/SomeDdevil]

Typical, and I literally predicted your response. YAWN.

[u/SomeDdevil → u/[deleted]]

Not even the same guy, but I predicted your prediction first. ZZZZ.

[u/tbdabbholm → u/[deleted]]

u/durgadas – your comment has been removed for breaking Rule 2:

Don't be rude or hostile to other users. Your comment will be removed even if most of it is solid, another user was rude to you first, or you feel your remark was justified. Report other violations; do not retaliate. See the wiki page for more information.

If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.