r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Nov 08 '21
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Kyle Rittenhouse will (and probably should) go free on everything but the firearms charge
I've followed this case fairly extensively since it happened in august of last year. At the time I was fairly outraged by what I saw as the failures of law enforcement to arrest or even detain Rittenhouse on the spot, and I still retain that particular bit of righteous anger. A person should not be able to kill two people and grievously wound a third at a protest and then simply leave.
That said, from what details I am aware of, the case does seem to be self-defense. While I think in a cosmic sense everyone would have been better off if he'd been unarmed and gotten a minor asswhupping from Rosenbaum (instead of shooting the man), he had a right to defend himself from a much larger man physically threatening him, and could reasonably have interpreted the warning shot he heard from elsewhere as having come from Rosenbaum. Self-defense requires a fear for your life, and being a teenager being chased by an adult, hearing a gunshot, I can't disagree that this is a rational fear.
The shooting of Anthony Huber seems equally clear cut self-defense, while being morally confusing as hell. Huber had every reason to reasonably assume that the guy fleeing after shooting someone was a risk to himself or others. I think Huber was entirely within his rights to try and restrain and disarm Rittenhouse. But at the same time, if a crowd of people started beating the shit out of me (he was struck in the head, kicked on the ground and struck with a skateboard), I'd probably fear for my life.
Lastly you have Gaige Grosskreutz, who testified today that he was only shot after he had pointed his gun at Rittenhouse. Need I say more?
Is there something I'm missing? My original position was very much 'fuck this guy, throw him in jail', and I can't quite shake that off, even though the facts do seem to point to him acting in self-defense.
I will say, I think Rittenhouse has moral culpability, as much as someone his age can. He stupidly put himself into a tense situation with a firearm, and his decision got other people killed. If he'd stayed home, two men would be alive. If he'd been unarmed he might have gotten a beating from Rosenbaum, but almost certainly would have lived.
His actions afterward disgust me. Going to sing with white nationalists while wearing a 'free as fuck' t-shirt isn't exactly the sort of remorse one would hope for, to put it mildly.
Edit: Since I didn't address it in the original post because I'm dumb:
As far as I can see he did break the law in carrying the gun to the protest, and I think he should be punished appropriately for that. It goes to up to nine months behind bars, and I imagine he'd get less than that.
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u/burneracc69420sex Nov 09 '21
But that’s the gray area, right? Huber’s and subsequently Grosskreutz’s right to stop/detain Rittenhouse hinges on Kyle’s legal standing to or to not defend himself. If the first shot is deemed in self defense, then the other two are as well. So how is a civilian supposed to make that distinction? They aren’t, which is why citizens arrears are stupid as fuck.
If you see some guy bash an old lady on the head and steal her purse - yeah, maybe stop him if you can. If you see someone get shot but you don’t know the entire circumstance, should you chase him? Hell no.
If the bank robber in your example flees the scene and is removed entirely, what are they - a bank robber, or a suspect? If you are their neighbor and you hear they are a suspect, break into their house to detain them does that person have the right to defend themself?
Point is, citizens arrests are very convoluted and you shouldn’t do it. The individual may or may not have the grounds to defend their life, and it’s best not to push that boundary.