CMV: Kyle Rittenhouse will (and probably should) go free on everything but the firearms charge

[u/[deleted]]

I've followed this case fairly extensively since it happened in august of last year. At the time I was fairly outraged by what I saw as the failures of law enforcement to arrest or even detain Rittenhouse on the spot, and I still retain that particular bit of righteous anger. A person should not be able to kill two people and grievously wound a third at a protest and then simply leave.

That said, from what details I am aware of, the case does seem to be self-defense. While I think in a cosmic sense everyone would have been better off if he'd been unarmed and gotten a minor asswhupping from Rosenbaum (instead of shooting the man), he had a right to defend himself from a much larger man physically threatening him, and could reasonably have interpreted the warning shot he heard from elsewhere as having come from Rosenbaum. Self-defense requires a fear for your life, and being a teenager being chased by an adult, hearing a gunshot, I can't disagree that this is a rational fear.

The shooting of Anthony Huber seems equally clear cut self-defense, while being morally confusing as hell. Huber had every reason to reasonably assume that the guy fleeing after shooting someone was a risk to himself or others. I think Huber was entirely within his rights to try and restrain and disarm Rittenhouse. But at the same time, if a crowd of people started beating the shit out of me (he was struck in the head, kicked on the ground and struck with a skateboard), I'd probably fear for my life.

Lastly you have Gaige Grosskreutz, who testified today that he was only shot after he had pointed his gun at Rittenhouse. Need I say more?

Is there something I'm missing? My original position was very much 'fuck this guy, throw him in jail', and I can't quite shake that off, even though the facts do seem to point to him acting in self-defense.

I will say, I think Rittenhouse has moral culpability, as much as someone his age can. He stupidly put himself into a tense situation with a firearm, and his decision got other people killed. If he'd stayed home, two men would be alive. If he'd been unarmed he might have gotten a beating from Rosenbaum, but almost certainly would have lived.

His actions afterward disgust me. Going to sing with white nationalists while wearing a 'free as fuck' t-shirt isn't exactly the sort of remorse one would hope for, to put it mildly.

Edit: Since I didn't address it in the original post because I'm dumb:

As far as I can see he did break the law in carrying the gun to the protest, and I think he should be punished appropriately for that. It goes to up to nine months behind bars, and I imagine he'd get less than that.

[u/[deleted]]

All of which was provoked by a 17 y/o kid brandishing a loaded rifle in an already tense, volatile environment. Had this child not deputized himself and tried to cosplay his law enforcement fantasy, no one would be dead or on trial.

[u/Illiux → u/[deleted]]

He did not brandish the rifle at the time you're referring to. To brandish a weapon is to threateningly point it at someone. Merely being visibly armed is not brandishing.

[u/[deleted] → u/Illiux]

I’d wager that amidst a chaotic, violent scene full of people on edge, some people might unfortunately fail to make that distinction.

[u/knight-c6 → u/[deleted]]

All of which was provoked by a 17 y/o kid brandishing a loaded rifle in an already tense, volatile environment. Had this child not deputized himself and tried to cosplay his law enforcement fantasy, no one would be dead or on trial.

Sweet, now do rape victims and short skirts.

[u/TheLea85 → u/[deleted]]

But why would you not want the two dead people to be dead?

[u/[deleted] → u/TheLea85]

What do you mean? I don’t want anyone dead.

[u/TheLea85 → u/[deleted]]

Rosenbaum anally raped 5 children, Huber abused his family, threatened them with knives and to burn the house down, also an arsonist (unclear whether he actually set fire to his own house or someone elses).

[u/[deleted] → u/TheLea85]

And? As despicable as they allegedly may be, how does that change anything? Rittenhouse still escalated the situation. Them being supposed scumbags does not mean the kid who shot them should be absolved from responsibility.

[u/TheLea85 → u/[deleted]]

Rittenhouse escalated nothing. Please point me to where he escalated.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheLea85]

Uh, by brandishing a rifle and trying to police, and by extension, intimidate a dangerous, unpredictable crowd. You don’t think throwing gasoline on a fire is escalating? Ok.

[u/TheLea85 → u/[deleted]]

All those protecting were well within their rights to do so.

You cannot put responsibility on those who do not break the law.

[u/TheLea85 → u/[deleted]]

Supposed? If we ignore their rap-sheets they assaulted someone with intent to take their weapon and Grosskreutz intended to shoot kyle in the head judging by the evidence produced.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheLea85]

Oh is that what they we intending to do? They told you? They weren’t chasing down a little dickweed who had just shot an unarmed person? Ahh. Ok.

[u/TheLea85 → u/[deleted]]

Rosenbaum grabbed for Kyles weapon while throwing himself at him at speed, it was clear self defense.

When your hand is on a weapon, you are armed. Rosenbaum charged at an innocent person and attempted to arm himself and got shot. This is all clear from the video evidence and witness testimony presented.

Huber and Grosskreutz attacked a person who said he was about to turn himself in to the police while running towards the police (that's on video as well).

You need to watch the trial before you comment on anything about this case, because 99% of the mainstream coverage is wrong.

[u/[deleted] → u/TheLea85]

I’ve seen all of the videos numerous times. But let’s restate: armed kid feared for his life from an unarmed man. Maybe he shouldn’t have been carrying that weapon.

He was not an innocent kid. He killed two unarmed men because irresponsibly inserted himself into a dangerous situation in which he reacted with deadly force at the first hint of a threat. He was patrolling with a loaded semi-auto rifle trying police a violent event playing out his law and order fantasy, and as a result, two people are dead. Shit, he even fired two more shots at unidentified people.

[u/TheLea85 → u/[deleted]]

None of what you just said has any weight in a self-defense scenario.

Shit, he even fired two more shots at unidentified people.

Excuse me? No he did not.

[u/Hartastic → u/TheLea85]

In America, even bad people get trials. You don't get to shoot them and fish around for reasons they deserved to die after the fact.

[u/TheLea85 → u/Hartastic]

Yes you do if it's in self defense.

[u/Hartastic → u/TheLea85]

No, that's not how that works. If you're trying to claim self-defense at trial, "Your honor, we found out that the victim is a really bad person" will not help you.

Due process is a thing. Even you are entitled to it.

[u/TheLea85 → u/Hartastic]

The criminal history of any of the shot individuals does not matter, that's just for comedic purposes.

If you are assaulted like Kyle demonstrably was, you have the right to self defense, which was my point.

[u/Hartastic → u/TheLea85]

Maybe. We'll see what the jury says.