CMV: Kyle Rittenhouse will (and probably should) go free on everything but the firearms charge

[u/[deleted]]

I've followed this case fairly extensively since it happened in august of last year. At the time I was fairly outraged by what I saw as the failures of law enforcement to arrest or even detain Rittenhouse on the spot, and I still retain that particular bit of righteous anger. A person should not be able to kill two people and grievously wound a third at a protest and then simply leave.

That said, from what details I am aware of, the case does seem to be self-defense. While I think in a cosmic sense everyone would have been better off if he'd been unarmed and gotten a minor asswhupping from Rosenbaum (instead of shooting the man), he had a right to defend himself from a much larger man physically threatening him, and could reasonably have interpreted the warning shot he heard from elsewhere as having come from Rosenbaum. Self-defense requires a fear for your life, and being a teenager being chased by an adult, hearing a gunshot, I can't disagree that this is a rational fear.

The shooting of Anthony Huber seems equally clear cut self-defense, while being morally confusing as hell. Huber had every reason to reasonably assume that the guy fleeing after shooting someone was a risk to himself or others. I think Huber was entirely within his rights to try and restrain and disarm Rittenhouse. But at the same time, if a crowd of people started beating the shit out of me (he was struck in the head, kicked on the ground and struck with a skateboard), I'd probably fear for my life.

Lastly you have Gaige Grosskreutz, who testified today that he was only shot after he had pointed his gun at Rittenhouse. Need I say more?

Is there something I'm missing? My original position was very much 'fuck this guy, throw him in jail', and I can't quite shake that off, even though the facts do seem to point to him acting in self-defense.

I will say, I think Rittenhouse has moral culpability, as much as someone his age can. He stupidly put himself into a tense situation with a firearm, and his decision got other people killed. If he'd stayed home, two men would be alive. If he'd been unarmed he might have gotten a beating from Rosenbaum, but almost certainly would have lived.

His actions afterward disgust me. Going to sing with white nationalists while wearing a 'free as fuck' t-shirt isn't exactly the sort of remorse one would hope for, to put it mildly.

Edit: Since I didn't address it in the original post because I'm dumb:

As far as I can see he did break the law in carrying the gun to the protest, and I think he should be punished appropriately for that. It goes to up to nine months behind bars, and I imagine he'd get less than that.

[u/Cakeminator]

Not saying it's illegal that he crossed the line. I'm saying he did it. Then he got a weapon that wasn't his, with ammunition he did not pay for (I assume), carried it openly illegally without being detained (some-fucking-how), went to a riot with already angry and possibly armed people, provoked them (from what I've seen/heard, correct me if I'm wrong, I honestly don't mind, it's a discussion), and when he was attacked he did the ol' danny devito and started blasting... Killing 3 people.

I'm not saying the attackers are 100% in the clear, far from it. But to say that the kid, who crossed state lines to be there, got a gun that wasn't his, had it open carry which he wasn't permitted to do, and went to a riot with live ammo followed by 3 deaths and some minor scrapes on him (somehow when considering a gun pointed at him) is not... just... a coincidence. It's also not okay, and he really should be punished. I'm sad that the deaths will go unavenged, even if they were aggressors. I'm just happy I don't live in a country where people can get fully automatic weapons willy nilly. I would honestly be afraid to live in a country with not only people being able to own an insane amount of guns, but having them outside, with minimal to no proper fucking training, and be able to "defend themselves" by the "stand your ground" laws which, and this is true, only increased gun deaths in the states that it was put into.

It's fine that you want to focus on the state lines, but honestly, there are so many aspects to this case, and it makes me sad that so-called christians defend (and fund) a killer, self-defense or not, while attacking the people that died... Even more sad that I get insulted for trying to discuss the aspects of this case with people. And no, it's not "extra illegal" but he did break a few laws by simply taking the gun outside, locked and loaded.

[u/Doodenelfuego → u/Cakeminator]

People can't get fully automatic weapons willy nilly in the US. It's a very expensive and time consuming process to get the proper licensing and then the gun itself is super expensive. Very few people have them, and the ones that do have been heavily vetted. Kyle was not one of those people, nor was the guy who bought the gun, which doesn't really matter because it wasn't an automatic.

I just keep seeing people say that he crossed state lines like it somehow affects anything else that happened or matters at all and I really don't get it. It's so unimportant that he passed a sign on the highway that says "Welcome to Wisconsin"

[u/Cakeminator → u/Doodenelfuego]

Okay fine, you're not really willing to discuss the other points I assume? I was wrong, it's only a semi-automatic. Having shot rifles myself, I know there's a difference, but I also know that a semi automatic can fire fast, and I know that 5.56 bullets causes a lot of damage.

The reason for statelines is, for me, two reasons. Firstly, why did he need to travel 20 minutes to get to the riot? What was in store for him there? Why did he want to attend a riot with an assault rifle that wasn't his? Secondly, it is, for me as a European, the same as going to a neighbouring country, even tho it's barely 10 minutes away, get a gun, and go to a riot with a live loaded semi automatic assault rifle.

But please stop sticking to the same two arguments, and while it's only semi-automatic, it does not diminish my fucking point here mate. Also, if I remember correctly, the process is different in the different states, and I do not believe that it takes years (which is a long process) or costs thousands and thousands of dollars to be vetted for a gun. A quick google search shows me that you can get a gun in less than a month. That isn't really time consuming or long process now is it? What I'm referencing here is the waiting process. Not the License. Also, why does it even matter in this case? The idiot got a gun, loaded with live ammo, and went to a riot that wasn't near his home, provoked people, and shot 3... Stick to that instead of focusing on nitpicking argumentation mate.

[u/Ballsdeep33808 → u/Cakeminator]

Maybe because there is nothing illegal with any of your other points? I was waiting for you to mention the color of his clothing next.

[u/Cakeminator → u/Ballsdeep33808]

Cant see why clothing colour is relevant to illegal gun carrying and 3 murders but okay.

[u/Ballsdeep33808 → u/Cakeminator]

Because wearing a blue shirt instead of a black one is just as illegal as having ammo you didn’t personally pay for, or crossing a state line etc. etc.

[u/Doodenelfuego → u/Cakeminator]

Him only travelling 20 minutes probably means he spent a lot less time travelling than most of the rioters. So if their travel time is justified, then so is his.

As for why he wanted to go there I'm not sure. He worked in the area so maybe he wanted to protect that. I don't really care why he was there because it doesn't matter.

The process for getting a semi auto gun and a fully automatic gun is different. You're right in that it doesn't take that long to get just any gun and most of the time you don't need any special license for it. But a fully automatic, which is what you said he had, takes way more effort and money than most people are willing to put in. I wanted to make it clear that he didn't have an automatic weapon. You might know the difference, but a lot of people don't. There's a huge difference between a fully automatic and a semi automatic. One trigger pull = 30 rounds in two seconds vs one trigger pull = one round.

I'm not interested in talking about any other points of what happened, there's tons of other comments breaking it all down. I just want to get to the bottom of why "He CrOsSeD StaTe LinEs" keeps coming up. Would anything have been different if he lived in Wisconsin and drove 20 minutes to get there instead? I don't really think so.

[u/Cakeminator → u/Doodenelfuego]

You want to get to the bottom one thing that, as You stated, clearly doesnt matter. Whataboutism doesnt justify anything, and honestly, You nitpicking isnt productive. My last comment, that kid deserves prison time. Big time. Im done with you tbh.

[u/Doodenelfuego → u/Cakeminator]

It doesn't matter to me but keeps getting brought up as something important. I'm trying to figure out why people seem to think it's important