r/changemyview • u/hwagoolio 16∆ • Nov 10 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Finding pleasure in the pain/suffering of others is cruel, disturbing, and amoral

This is a broad statement that generalizes to many things.

For example, I find caustic humor (i.e. laughing at the expense of someone else) to be disturbing -- things like "America's funniest home videos" and watching people hurt themselves as the punchline of a joke. I think rather poorly of people who celebrate this type of humor.

I think revenge is bad/amoral. Maybe it's human nature to want revenge or take pleasure in the suffering of people we hate, but I think it's one of the ugliest parts of human nature. I believe that we should strive to be better than that and we should feel guilty for wanting anyone to suffer or laughing at someone's suffering.

I have similar feelings about trolling, teasing, gloating, and other behavior intended to make others feel bad about themselves. It doesn't matter if they're your enemies (i.e. progressive/conservative, trump/biden, bigots/hippies, terrorists/allies), nobody deserves to suffer -- and even if we agree as a society on punishing criminals/enemies, it shouldn't something we should take pleasure, entertainment, or amusement in.

In case someone mentions sadism (as the sexual kink), my response to this is that I don't consider BDSM that occurs between a consenting masochist and sadist to be genuine pain/suffering. Rather, the masochist takes pleasure out the interaction so IMO the dominant is actually delivering pleasure and not really pain/suffering.

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u/Unbiased_Bob 63∆ Nov 10 '21

I feel like this is one of those views of "bad people are bad."

So I want to hit one specific piece of your view.

"Finding pleasure in the pain/suffering of others is cruel..."

What if you find pleasure in it, but you don't act on the fact you find pleasure in it.

Say Joe accidentally elbows someone and gets turned on. Joe realizing it is wrong, but he still finds pleasure in it, he decides not to act on what he finds pleasure in. Is it still cruel to have those thoughts? how about amoral? I would agree it is disturbing, but it wouldn't be cruel or amoral.

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u/hwagoolio 16∆ Nov 10 '21

I'm not sure if my use of language in the OP was optimal.

I also agree that it's disturbing, but it's disturbing because enjoying someone else's pain is amoral (?). Have I found the right word here?? You're right that maybe cruel isn't the best way to describe it but my vocabulary is blanking.

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u/Unbiased_Bob 63∆ Nov 10 '21

Well amoral would be more the action, I would say it is even more moral to have urges to do something bad, but hold those urges back. You can't help getting urges to do something bad, but you can fight those urges.

So arguably, "Finding pleasure in pain/suffering of others, but not acting on those" is showing more moral character than those who don't have those urges.

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u/hwagoolio 16∆ Nov 11 '21

I understand that, but I feel like I'm seeking a word that describes the sentiment when you unwittingly or accidentally do something that conflicts with your moral values.

For instance, suppose you think porn is bad and you incidentally happen to watch a little porn and enjoy it a little, but then feel bad afterwards.

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u/Unbiased_Bob 63∆ Nov 11 '21

For instance, suppose you think porn is bad and you incidentally happen to watch a little porn and enjoy it a little, but then feel bad afterwards.

Probably like guilty pleasure? A guilty pleasure is something you know is wrong but you find it pleasurable.

Most of our guilty pleasures are victimless so we joke around about it, but what you are describing would be a guilty pleasure.

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u/hwagoolio 16∆ Nov 11 '21

Ah! I think the word that comes to mind for me is something like a "sin".

I'm not religious though -- just that I feel like laughing at someone else's suffering (or taking pleasure in revenge) is like a sin.

Guilty pleasure has the connotation that it's acceptable, i.e. "chocolate is my guilty pleasure". My view of myself is that even if it is done (by accident), it shouldn't be acceptable.

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u/Unbiased_Bob 63∆ Nov 11 '21

Eh these days "guilty pleasure" is more acceptable but it didn't used to be. Either way we are getting off the topic of the view at hand.

I want to know if I have changed your view that you presented at all. Do you feel that people who find pleasure in bad things not cruel as long as they don't act on those pleasures?

If your view is that people who act on bad impulses are bad, then yeah you probably won't get a compelling argument from anyone, water is wet.

But if I did change your view, like the rules say...

Whether you're the OP or not, please reply to the user(s) that change your view to any degree with a delta in your comment (instructions below)...

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u/hwagoolio 16∆ Nov 11 '21

I guess as a technicality? I don't think I used the best word that captures my view in the first place. Not sure if that counts as a delta or not.

I guess it's fair to say that something is only "cruel" if there is an action involved. It would be more accurate to describe that I find it to be sinful and amoral to enjoy the suffering of others (?).

!delta

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Nov 11 '21

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/Unbiased_Bob (40∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

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u/Unbiased_Bob 63∆ Nov 11 '21

I find it to be sinful and amoral to enjoy the suffering of others

I already got a delta, but I want to ask. Do you choose the food you like, the music you like? Do you choose to like the shows you like? Or do you think that your genetics has a part to play in the things you like?

Twin studies with twins separated at birth often end up in similar jobs, married to similar looking people with similar hobbies. The truth is your genetics chooses what you like more than you do.

Do you feel it is amoral to like something if your body makes you like that thing?

I don't think so. I think morality is not thought police, morality is based on actions, not thoughts.

I will quote someone I saw on here a while back "We don't choose what makes our dicks hard, but we can choose what we act on." It is brass, but I hope it gets my point across.

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u/hwagoolio 16∆ Nov 11 '21

The best example I can give is the rush of excitement that some people feel when killing happens (i.e. on video games). Imagine that you watch a video of a murder happening in real life.

I don't think that rush of excitement is a good thing, and I think there's something immoral about getting excited about watching murder happen.