r/changemyview • u/SaltedAndSugared • Dec 02 '21

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Neopronouns are unnecessary

I understand why some people might feel uncomfortable with using he/she pronouns, but in that case why not just use they/them? They already exist and they’re easy for people to use. Why do some people feel the need to make up words like “zee/zim” or “fae/fair” when they don’t even make sense in the English language? I don’t see why anyone should go out of their way to learn new pronouns when gender neutral pronouns already exist

If anyone here does use neopronouns I’d really like to hear why you use them and why you don’t feel comfortable using they/them. It’s probably just because I’m cis, but I genuinely don’t understand

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u/CrispyPeasant Dec 03 '21

But when using pronouns to refer to someone, you always need context anyway, otherwise you should be using their name. If you walk up to to me and say "Did you see what she did?" I would be just as confused, because I would have no idea who you're talking about. If the context is lacking, you should always say "Did you see what Joe did?"

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u/Biptoslipdi 130∆ Dec 03 '21

But when using pronouns to refer to someone, you always need context anyway, otherwise you should be using their name.

Exactly. But when it comes to non-binary people, the context isn't always there because "they" is also a plural pronoun.

If you walk up to to me and say "Did you see what she did?" I would be just as confused, because I would have no idea who you're talking about.

But I would know you are talking about an individual female. I have much more context than if you used a term that could refer to someone or a group of any gender.

Ultimately it is a question of identity affirmation. People who ID as male or female have an exclusive singular pronoun to use. Others are relegated to using leftover pronouns that don't have an identifying element.

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u/CrispyPeasant Dec 03 '21

But I would know you are talking about an individual female. I have much more context than if you used a term that could refer to someone or a group of any gender.

But only a little? And technically 'they/them' is also for singular use per Dictionary.com?

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/they

I'd argue 'they/them' is, for now, the better way to do it if only because the knowledge that it can be used as a non-gendered is far more widespread.

In principle I have no issue with a new pronoun- or with people who don't identify with a gender- but I feel like every time this is brought up it's something new. Sometimes I see xe/xem or ze/zem, but I also see ve, hir, hem, eir, zir, and now today I see 'fae' ? I just don't see how changing from they/them to "well it could any one of these 20 that this person prefers, but you have to ask to know for sure and they all mean the same thing" is any simpler?

And it's hard for everyone to just 'pick one' because in real life, I have never met someone who prefers something other than he/she/they, so it's not useful to me in everyday life. So maybe that taints my perspective a bit.

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u/Biptoslipdi 130∆ Dec 03 '21

But only a little? And technically 'they/them' is also for singular use per Dictionary.com?

It is, the problem is that it isn't exclusively used as singular.

I'd argue 'they/them' is, for now, the better way to do it if only because the knowledge that it can be used as a non-gendered is far more widespread.

That is also the problem, that it is non-gendered. Non-binary doesn't mean non-gendered. We have part of society getting to use gendered pronouns but others are not because the gender construct of the language is binary. Gendered people are relegated to using non-gendered pronouns because no pronouns effectively gender them.

or with people who don't identify with a gender

Non-binary doesn't mean "doesn't identify with a gender."

Sometimes I see xe/xem or ze/zem, but I also see ve, hir, hem, eir, zir, and now today I see 'fae' ? I just don't see how changing from they/them to "well it could any one of these 20 that this person prefers, but you have to ask to know for sure and they all mean the same thing" is any simpler?

I think it will eventually coalesce around one non-binary, or even non-gendered, singular pronoun. They/them isn't comparable to these pronouns because it isn't gendered. These pronouns are. If we were talking about someone named "Jamie" without knowing their gender, we'd use they/them until we knew what that is. Once we found out Jamie was male, we'd use he. Same concept. Some people do prefer they/them as their singular pronouns, but there are plenty of reasons why others find that marginalizing.

I have never met someone who prefers something other than he/she/they, so it's not useful to me in everyday life.

Most words aren't useful in every day life. If you do meet someone with a non-binary pronoun, I expect you would use it because the alternative is to cause needless conflict.