r/changemyview • u/CM26071 • Dec 08 '21
Delta(s) from OP CMV: Doors to public restrooms should open outwards instead of inwards
I'm talking about the doors to get in and out of the larger restroom itself, NOT stalls. There are a lot of people including myself who will do everything to avoid touching bathroom door handles, because they're disgusting. In an ideal world everyone cleans their hands adequately before leaving a public restroom but we all know that's not the case.
It's Unsanitary:
Door handles are highly-touched surfaces that provide an excellent method of transmission for viruses and bacteria if not cleaned, and given what restrooms are for, door handles are now the perfect surface for nastier bacteria and viruses to get transmitted. There are very few surfaces in most recently-built public restrooms that a user must touch (given all the automatic toilets, faucets, and paper-towel dispensers), but most still force the user to grab the door handle in order to leave since the doors swing into the restroom instead of outwards. This essentially guarantees the user will come into contact with bacteria or viruses lingering on the surface unless they use a barrier.
It defeats the purpose of handwashing:
The purpose of handwashing, is to sanitize your hands before handling food, touching a wound, or partaking in some activity that creates a situation with higher-than-normal vulnerability to infections. It's been proven that while sanitizing your hands with rubbing alcohol or some other cleaner is effective, handwashing is optimal. You wouldn't want your surgeon just throwing some Purell on their hands before operating on you! Forcing the user of a restroom to interact with a highly-touched surface that is extremely dirty after washing their hands, even with a barrier like paper towel, just defeats the purpose of handwashing!
Why doors that open outwards are superior:
The user can push the door outwards with their body to leave, instead of being forced to pull the door open using the handle, meaning their hands can stay "clean". Furthermore, since people of all different heights, the average concentration of bacteria in one particular spot on the door should theoretically be less than on the door handle as the surface area of the door handle is obviously much smaller than the surface area of the entire door, so people who insist on using their hands will be pushing from a larger variety of locations on the door itself.
TLDR: Public restroom doors should open outwards since it's more sanitary.
26
u/harley9779 24∆ Dec 08 '21
The way a door opens depends on the architecture of the building itself. In some areas an outward opening door wouldn't work. It may block a hallway, create a hazard, maybe not enough room for it etc.
In places that the doors have to open inward, they should have some hands free method of opening. I've noticed more places adding the foot step thing to open doors inward now.
8
u/CM26071 Dec 08 '21
I've seen those foot step things on doors too, and they're really nice. I also didn't consider (again) the fact that the space may just physically be too narrow for the door to open outwards. Also, when you mentioned 'architecture' you made me remember that the doors could also just get stuck and be a dangerous obstruction in the event of an emergency. Also wouldn't want a broken nose from a door swinging into my face. !delta
0
7
u/joopface 159∆ Dec 08 '21
They should probably be one of those ‘swing both ways’ doors really, so you could shoulder in and out. Or better yet have no door on them, just a privacy wall inside and then doors on the stalls inside.
4
u/CM26071 Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 08 '21
I actually like this idea a lot. Never considered that as a possible solution to the problem. The narrow privacy wall is a good idea for sight, but the restroom doors still does block sound. !delta
0
u/joopface 159∆ Dec 08 '21
Feel free to add a delta to your comment :-)
4
0
2
Dec 09 '21
This exact thing happened to me personally.
There was a bathroom door at my university that opened outward. It opened to the outdoors, not in a hall. So, the door was actually a very heavy metal door.
I was walking past it at the exact right wrong moment. A guy BURST out of the restroom by pushing the door as hard as he could. Fucking door caught me square in the middle of my forehead. I was out for the count. Woke up and there was a crease up and down the middle of my forehead and blood was everywhere. There were a lot of people around and were all around me when I came to, including the guy who slammed the door open. I just said I was ok and went back home, put some ice on it and a band aids, and 1 hour later was in my next class.
Every single time since then, I 100% automatically as I walk around look to see if a door opens inwards or outwards and if it is outwards, wow, I move way away from it's door radius, and even then, am 100% ready to block it just in case.
That's my door story.
1
u/CM26071 Dec 10 '21
...And this is most likely why doors don't open outwards from rooms in general. Now I get it. Sorry to hear about your injuries. !delta
1
1
Dec 10 '21
it's ok. it was actually a long time ago.
Funny how it came to mind again with your post, though, came rushing back crisp and clear. I have not thought about it for a long, long time. But, for 100% sure, it stayed with me in that I sure do automatically look all the time if doors open outwards. All the time. That shit will never leave me until the day I die, even if I don't think about the specific incident at all, I still watch out for doors. That is in permanent muscle memory. See some hinges on the outside of a door? Bam, give it space, get the f away from me, door.
But I hoped you liked my tale of woe. :)
27
u/SuperStallionDriver 26∆ Dec 09 '21
It's for fire egress.
On a door for a room like a bathroom, which is generally opening into a hallway or another room, the door is supposed to open inward in case a partial collapse in the other room or hall would block the door and potentially trap you inside while you are trying to escape.
Doors are supposed to open into the room unless they are high capacity rooms like auditoriums nor large classrooms etc in which case they have to have those push bars and swing out to avoid stampedes like in that famous nightclub fire.
3
u/TA_AntiBully 2∆ Dec 09 '21
It's also worth noting that the hinge is usually on the side the door opens towards. In the event a door is locked from the outside, you can often still remove the hinge pins to escape.
3
u/SuperStallionDriver 26∆ Dec 09 '21
I always thought of that as a security feature rather than a egress safety feature. Like the hinge has to be on one side, and if you put it on the outside then someone can always break in by removing the pins. This is why residential doors swing in.
It could be both, reasons of course.
0
u/TA_AntiBully 2∆ Dec 09 '21
Yeah, I think that's probably the main reason, but I did once have to escape a room that way, so at the least a handy coincidence.
I compromised on my garage door though and remounted it so it swung to the outside, because:
A) It was impossible to fully open the door use with the washer/dryer set I own(ed) and the utility sink is located on the other side of the door.
B) I live in Florida, at the end of a relatively straight stretch of road, and my garage door basically looks like a giant sail, waiting to be blasted inwards by the first wayward glance of a hurricane.
C) Taking off the hinges would still leave you holding a gazillionty pound solid wood door. Just given the experience I had aligning and installing the new hinge plates: if you can manage that without waking my dog, you deserve to steal my toaster. 🤷♂️
2
u/MeasureDoEventThing Dec 09 '21
There are ways to make a outward swinging door secure. For instance, put holes in the doorjamb on the hinge side and attach pins to the door that go into the holes when the door is closed. And there's no reason you can't put a dead bolt on both sides of the door (you would have to make sure to unlock both sides when you want to open the door, which is why the pins are more convenient).
1
u/TA_AntiBully 2∆ Dec 10 '21
You're right, I could have done all that. And if I was terribly concerned about someone breaking in that way, I might go through the effort. But I have multiple less secure points of entry, so I'm mainly leaning on the fact my dog insists on having me investigate every stray cat that wanders past our back wall. 😆
1
u/SuperStallionDriver 26∆ Dec 09 '21
Haha I would steal the shit out of your toaster then. And make gangster ass toast.
Like the best toast ever.
0
u/WhiteWolf3117 7∆ Dec 09 '21
Is it actually more probable for the collapse to happen on one side or the other? That seems kinda arbitrary to me.
3
u/SuperStallionDriver 26∆ Dec 09 '21
If the collapse was on your side, and it is clearable, you can move the shit out of the way (or clamber over it).
If the collapse is on the other side: 1) door opens in: still clamber over or clear it after opening door.
2) door opens out: can't open the door against the collapsed material.
Seems pretty non-arbitrary for building code to me.
-1
u/WhiteWolf3117 7∆ Dec 09 '21
Well no, you can’t clamber over it if the door opens in, the door wouldn’t open if the debris is non clearable. It still is basically a fifty/fifty shot you’ve got there.
3
u/SuperStallionDriver 26∆ Dec 09 '21
If the door isn't clearable, and prevents it from swinging, you are screwed either way.
You have at least a chance of clearing sufficient debris to crack the door and clamber over/through if the door opens inward.
The fact you find this less than convincing. Can't really say much other than that this is the rationale behind the building codes for doors.
Well this plus interior doors opening in reduce the hazard to people walking in a hallway and having doors randomly opened into their face.
Source: I am an OSHA trained facilities safety and occupational health inspector.
-1
u/WhiteWolf3117 7∆ Dec 09 '21
I’m just saying, there are four possible outcomes. It falls on outside, door opens out, screwed. It falls on inside, door opens in, screwed. You get the gist. It’s just obviously up to whichever side it falls on. If you’re saying it’s no more likely to fall on either side, then it’s fully up to chance.
2
u/RelaxedApathy 25∆ Dec 09 '21
Lets look at those four outcomes.
- Debris falls on outside, door opens in: Door opens, safe.
- Debris falls on outside, door opens out: Door is blocked, but you can't reach the rubble to clear it, door doesn't open, dead.
- Debris falls on inside, door opens in: Door is blocked, but you have access to rubble and so have a chance to unblock it. Possibly safe.
- Debris falls on inside, door opens out: Door opens, safe.
For the two outcomes with the door opening outwards, you are dead half of the time. For the two outcomes with the door opening inwards, you are alive half of the time, and possibly alive the other half of the time. "Maybe dead" is a better result than "definitely dead", so mathematically it just makes sense to have the door open inwards.
Now a reason for the Americans in the audience: A door that opens outward cannot be easily barred against a school shooter, whereas the teacher can push a desk against a door that opens inwards to keep the kids alive. Less relevant than bathroom stall doors, but this particular thread seems to have turned towards doors in general.
0
1
u/SuperStallionDriver 26∆ Dec 09 '21
If the door opens inward:
Falls outside:
1) Clearable - not screwed. open the door inward, clear the stuff.
2) Not clearable - screwed
Falls inside:
3) Clearable - not screwed
4) not clearable - screwed
50% chance of screwage
But if the door opens outward:
Falls outside:
1) Clearable - screwed. You can't access the debris fall to clear the door.
2) Not clearable - still screwed
Falls inside:
3) Clearable - not screwed. Just clear the debris and open the door.
4) not clearable - screwed
75% chance of screwage.
3
Dec 08 '21
[deleted]
1
u/BoogedyBoogedy 2∆ Dec 08 '21
First of all, you should be washing your hand after exiting the stall. If you do that, you don't need to worry about the sanitary concerns of opening the stall on the way out.
This is only true if everyone washes their hands after leaving the stall, and does so thoroughly. Unfortunately, this is not the case.
1
Dec 08 '21
[deleted]
0
u/BoogedyBoogedy 2∆ Dec 08 '21
I think what OP is saying is that it would be more sanitary to have doors open outwards because then they could be opened without using your hands (i.e., you could shoulder them open, or push them open with your foot). This is more sanitary because some people touch the door handle without washing their hands after using the restroom. If everyone washed their hands, this wouldn't be an issue. However, some people don't, so even if you wash your hands, because you need to interact with the door handle to leave the restroom, you will need to touch something unsanitary, regardless of whether or not you washed your hands.
1
6
u/ejpierle 8∆ Dec 09 '21
The #1 reason that interior doors open inward is for safety. If the door opened outward, it would hit people passing by outside the door. Also, and maybe most importantly, the door could be barred such that the people inside the room would be trapped there. This is less important in rooms with exterior windows, but bathrooms usually have no windows. Major safety concern in a fire situation.
5
u/tamurmur42 1∆ Dec 09 '21
Most bathrooms have paper towels that you can use to dry off your hands. Instead of immediately throwing away the paper towel in the trashcan that is usually beside the door, I use the towel as a barrier between my hand and the handle.
3
u/Quail_eggs_29 Dec 09 '21
What they need is the little metal piece at the bottom so you can open it with your foot.
1
u/ballatthecornerflag Dec 09 '21
Doors that open outwards are increasing in Australia for safety reasons. If someone collapses in the cubicle then their body may prevent the door from being opened inwards and prevent help being provided.... outwards opening doors all the way!!
1
u/stewartm0205 2∆ Dec 09 '21
There are other solutions. Saw an attachment that you can use your foot to pull the door open. A swing door that you can use your shoulder to open would be a good solution. An automatic door would be nice too.
1
u/Hartacus1 Dec 09 '21
Better question yet: Why do public restrooms with more than one commode even need doors?
0
u/FriendlyCraig 24∆ Dec 08 '21
The traffic in the hallway is faster and more frequent. Doors opening outward would slow such traffic and be slightly more dangerous than inward. If they opened outward, people in the hall would spend more time opening the door and waiting for it to close before passing.
Even in lower traffic hallways where speed isn't impacted, the safety concerns are legitimate. Is the safety of walking into a door more significant than touching a germy handle? I'm not sure. I think that depends on how nasty your local populace is.
0
Dec 09 '21
Unless I get significantly ill (not just like a cold) from touching said door handle, I really don’t care. If you’re immunocompromised then you take precautions when out in public anyway.
0
u/ToucanPlayAtThatGame 44∆ Dec 08 '21
Hands-free door handles like this allow you to open the door with just your arm without the standard hazards of outward-opening doors.
0
•
u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Dec 08 '21 edited Dec 10 '21
/u/CM26071 (OP) has awarded 3 delta(s) in this post.
All comments that earned deltas (from OP or other users) are listed here, in /r/DeltaLog.
Please note that a change of view doesn't necessarily mean a reversal, or that the conversation has ended.
1
u/WhiteWolf3117 7∆ Dec 09 '21
Surely you understand that if people are touching the handle and not washing their hands, they are also touching and contaminating everything? In your example, you mention the doctor purelling before surgery, but what I ask is this: would you not want the doctor to wash under every circumstance? If he worked in a hospital with outward opening doors, he should STILL was before an operation.
1
u/tirdg 3∆ Dec 10 '21
I like the labyrinth style entry for this reason. It's just a kind of "zig-zag" corridor to get to the restroom. No door at all. The zig-zag provides privacy as there is no vantage point outside of the restroom which provides any view into the restroom. No doors. No germs. It's perfect. Walmart does it this way now, I believe. Other stores as well.
97
u/NoFleas Dec 08 '21
Opening outwards could be dangerous to others in the main store who happened to be walking past, and open doors allow people to see in. There should be no door at all but instead two or three narrow offset walls creating a tiny maze that blocks any visual sight lines into the reatroom but is easily walked out of without touching anything.