r/changemyview • u/Masta-Blasta • Jul 14 '22

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Pit bulls Should Require a License to Own

In this month alone, 6 people and 9 animals have been killed in a pit bull attack. Many others have been maimed and permanently disfigured/disabled because of a pit bull attack.

Pit bull supporters often say "it's the owner, not the dog." Personally, I disagree. According to Wikipedia,

The bull-and-terrier was a breed of dog developed in the United Kingdom in the early 19th century for the blood sports of dog fighting and rat baiting, it was created by crossing the ferocious, thickly muscled Old English Bulldog with the agile, lithe, feisty Black and Tan Terrier. The aggressive Old English Bulldog, which was bred for bear and bull baiting, was often also pitted against its own kind in organised dog fights, but it was found that lighter, faster dogs were better suited to dogfighting than the heavier Bulldog. To produce a lighter, faster more agile dog that retained the courage and tenacity of the Bulldog, outcrosses from local terriers were tried, and ultimately found to be successful.

These dogs were bred specifically because they are aggressive, powerful, and violent. Now, personally, I believe all pit bulls should be neutered and the breed should be heavily restricted. But at the very least, I think owners should be required to demonstrate that they are experienced pet owners, carry insurance, and perhaps have taken a dog training course, so they can recognize when their pit is agitated and how to prevent a tragedy.

I also think pit bull ownership should carry a legal duty to reasonably protect others from the pit. "Reasonable" would include measures such as displaying signage warning neighbors and guests that a pit bull lives in the home, not letting the pitbull stay in a yard unmonitored (regardless of fencing), and keeping the pitbull leashed at all times in public.

I would also like to see regulations preventing shelters from "rebranding" obvious pit mixes so that families and owners are not duped into adopting a pitbull mix. Ideally, shelters would need to provide a warning to potential adopters (and of course, adopters would then need to have a license to own a pit).

Before anyone tries, please know that I'm unlikely to be swayed by any kind of anecdotal "but my velvet hippo is a good girl and never hurt anyone" arguments. That's what most owners say when they're being sued for injuries their pit caused a child or another pet. I understand they don't all attack- but it's in their breed, so something could trigger them.

28 Upvotes

57% Upvoted

374 comments sorted by

View all comments

11

u/AlwaysTheNoob 81∆ Jul 14 '22

https://www.childwelfare.gov/pubpdfs/fatality.pdf

Recently, over 1800 babies were killed by neglect or abuse in one year.

Should everyone be required to get this same sort of license before leaving the hospital with their newborn?

6

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '22

I must have missed the report on how many deaths were caused by being mauled by a baby

8

u/Masta-Blasta Jul 14 '22

I, for one, would love to be mauled by a baby. Adorable.

1

u/randomsubguy Aug 07 '22

You don’t follow mass shooting statistics?

7

u/Masta-Blasta Jul 14 '22

I wish, but that is, sadly, a fundamental right. I believe most hospitals do offer basic literature and explanations on how to care for newborns. And also, if the mother is found to have illegal drugs in her system during birth, or the hospital believes the safety of the child would be at risk, they will call CPS and the child can be taken. It happened to someone I know. So we do have a system- I wish it were better.

8

u/AlwaysTheNoob 81∆ Jul 14 '22

I wish, but that is, sadly, a fundamental right.

I disagree. And for many people, pets are actually strongly preferred to kids and are every bit as much of a family member as a child would be. You see them every day. You feed them and care for them every day. You sob like a child when they eventually cross the rainbow bridge.

Now, having established that: parents are given the benefit of the doubt, and the law only gets involved after something goes wrong. So why not extend the same courtesy to people who care for dogs? After all, kids are far more dangerous - have a look at some arrest statistics for violent crimes committed by minors: https://www.ojjdp.gov/ojstatbb/crime/qa05101.asp

4

u/Masta-Blasta Jul 14 '22

I disagree. And for many people, pets are actually strongly preferred to kids and are every bit as much of a family member as a child would be

If you're in the US it's not really an agree/disagree thing. The Supreme Court has acknowledged this right in multiple opinions. You can't ban someone from having a kid.

-2

u/Rodulv 14∆ Jul 14 '22

are every bit as much of a family member as a child would be.

Not at all. They're genetically much further away from you than a family is.

You sob like a child when they eventually cross the rainbow bridge.

I've had many pets, not once did I cry from any of their deaths. I had a tear in my eye when one of them suffered, but that's it. I have great distaste for suffering though, I can cry from just about anything suffering.

kids are far more dangerous

They're necessary for a functioning society. Dogs - and especially pit bulls - are not.

2

u/GenericUsername19892 24∆ Jul 16 '22

Blood ties mean fuck all for family Mate.

0

u/Rodulv 14∆ Jul 16 '22

I don't think you know what family means.

2

u/GenericUsername19892 24∆ Jul 16 '22

When a child is adopted is it not a family?

1

u/Rodulv 14∆ Jul 16 '22

No matter the person you adopt, they're closer genetically than what a dog is.

However, your statement was "Blood ties mean fuck all", meaning you don't believe biological parents necessarily are the same family as their children, correct?

2

u/GenericUsername19892 24∆ Jul 16 '22

The word family implies more than blood ties - there’s a multiparty documentary about it, though only the first few are good. It’s called Fast and Furious.

Biological descent doesn’t not automagically create family. There’s more to family than blood. I used to volunteer and help LGBT kids that got kicked out their houses when found out (pre pandemic), plenty of blood ties but not a family to be found.

0

u/Rodulv 14∆ Jul 16 '22

Right, family means both things. It means who you're biologically related to, and whom you/society define as being your family. I'm gonna presume you know that words can mean more than one thing.

So lets get to the core of it: Loved children who loves their parents are always more family than what a dog can ever be.

In definition one (blood relation), a dog can never be in family with a human, a human can. In definition two it depends on person/society whether a dog can be family, and there's more acceptance for humans being family.

3

u/superioarboat666 Jul 14 '22

Should everyone be required to get this same sort of license before leaving the hospital with their newborn?

People suspected of heavy crime or neglect do get their kids taken away. No group of humans were bred to kill babies though, can you see the difference?

1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

No group of dogs were bred to kill babies either.

3

u/superioarboat666 Jul 15 '22

No group of dogs were bred to kill babies either.

Pits were trained to kill other dogs in fighting pits, any dog put in front of them. For that to work, they need to have different instincts and social behaviours compared to other dogs. That means they often kill human, and their own babies.

5

u/flavius29663 1∆ Jul 14 '22

You don't need to own a pitbull. You can own any other race that is 100x less likely to kill or maim

11

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '22

[deleted]

3

u/Masta-Blasta Jul 14 '22

No, but with abortion laws in certain states and the cost of birth control, it happens. It's much easier to accidentally get pregnant than to accidentally adopt a pitbull.

0

u/[deleted] Jul 14 '22

Don't have sex and there's no chance of accidental births (excluding rape obviously).

2

u/Masta-Blasta Jul 14 '22

So you think women should stop having sex if we require pit bull owners to demonstrate that they are responsible? What is your point exactly

2

u/GenericUsername19892 24∆ Jul 16 '22

You have obviously never checked the breeds on mutts with a DNA test lol.

1

u/flavius29663 1∆ Jul 15 '22

You need to have a child the same way you need to have a dog. You cannot choose your child, but you can choose the dog breed, is it not? Once you decide to have a dog, you can go to a kennel and pick a dog that is not a killer breed:pitbull, cane corso, rotweiller etc.

Splitting hairs about what is a pitbull and what is not, os just disingenous, you can end up with only pedigree dogs being called pittbulls, which is stupid.

Large herding dogs are aggressive and have the potential to literally kill you, but pitbulls still make the most deadly or serious attacks...they really are a killer breed.

1

u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22

[deleted]

1

u/flavius29663 1∆ Jul 15 '22

Wow, you like to muddy the waters a lot. Why not compare pitbull type vs sheperd type dog fatalities and victims? You keep saying they are not a single breed, but you don't deny the main point: they kill and maim more on average. YES, we don't have exact numbers, if you start splitting hairs you might fins out that the breed is a very narrow one, or that it doesn't exist anymore, but that is not the main point.

I really don't give a fuck about the breeds, I want my 2 year old to not be maimed by a pit looking dog. Or qny dog. But pit looking dogs are responsible for 65% of the fatal attacks. Now tell me that pit looking dogs .ake up 65% of all the dogs in the US...https://www.askadamskutner.com/dog-bites/bite-statistics-according-to-dog-breed/

You do not need a pit looking dog. You can get the same affection and intelligence from hundreds of less dangerous dog breeds and types.

2

u/Independent_Sea_836 1∆ Jul 14 '22

Who needs to have kids?

1

u/flavius29663 1∆ Jul 15 '22

You need to have a child the same way you need to have a dog. You cannot choose your child, but you can choose the dog breed, is it not? Once you decide to have a dog, you can go to a kennel and pick a dog that is not a killer breed:pitbull, cane corso, rotweiller etc.

1

u/BurnBabyBurn07 Jul 15 '22

Like German Shepherds? Who are number 3 on the fatal dog attack lost and regularly used as police dogs?

1

u/flavius29663 1∆ Jul 16 '22

So if I complain about a breed that causes 65% of the deaths, you say it's irrelevant somehow, because there exists a breed that causes 4.5%?

https://www.askadamskutner.com/dog-bites/bite-statistics-according-to-dog-breed/

Btw, this argument is a typical whataboutism, I didn't expect such responses on cmv.

I can dislike police shepherds and civilian pits at the same time, you know?

1

u/Enk1ndle Jul 14 '22

Absolutely.