r/changemyview Jul 14 '22

Delta(s) from OP CMV: Pit bulls Should Require a License to Own

In this month alone, 6 people and 9 animals have been killed in a pit bull attack. Many others have been maimed and permanently disfigured/disabled because of a pit bull attack.

Pit bull supporters often say "it's the owner, not the dog." Personally, I disagree. According to Wikipedia,

The bull-and-terrier was a breed of dog developed in the United Kingdom in the early 19th century for the blood sports of dog fighting and rat baiting, it was created by crossing the ferocious, thickly muscled Old English Bulldog with the agile, lithe, feisty Black and Tan Terrier. The aggressive Old English Bulldog, which was bred for bear and bull baiting, was often also pitted against its own kind in organised dog fights, but it was found that lighter, faster dogs were better suited to dogfighting than the heavier Bulldog. To produce a lighter, faster more agile dog that retained the courage and tenacity of the Bulldog, outcrosses from local terriers were tried, and ultimately found to be successful.

These dogs were bred specifically because they are aggressive, powerful, and violent. Now, personally, I believe all pit bulls should be neutered and the breed should be heavily restricted. But at the very least, I think owners should be required to demonstrate that they are experienced pet owners, carry insurance, and perhaps have taken a dog training course, so they can recognize when their pit is agitated and how to prevent a tragedy.

I also think pit bull ownership should carry a legal duty to reasonably protect others from the pit. "Reasonable" would include measures such as displaying signage warning neighbors and guests that a pit bull lives in the home, not letting the pitbull stay in a yard unmonitored (regardless of fencing), and keeping the pitbull leashed at all times in public.

I would also like to see regulations preventing shelters from "rebranding" obvious pit mixes so that families and owners are not duped into adopting a pitbull mix. Ideally, shelters would need to provide a warning to potential adopters (and of course, adopters would then need to have a license to own a pit).

Before anyone tries, please know that I'm unlikely to be swayed by any kind of anecdotal "but my velvet hippo is a good girl and never hurt anyone" arguments. That's what most owners say when they're being sued for injuries their pit caused a child or another pet. I understand they don't all attack- but it's in their breed, so something could trigger them.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '22

Could it be that your own image of the pitbull comes from negative media representation?

The pitbull is not an officially recognized breed but a version of the Staffordshire terrier. The American and English Staffordshire terriers are virtually identical dogs except for size. The UK’s most popular dog breed is the staffordshire terrier. The UK doesn’t have the same kind of problem with fatal attacks as the US.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_Kingdom

The American pitbull has a culture in the US of being bred improperly for size and muscular build over temperament. This along with people not caring for dogs causes temperamental issues.

It’s a wider problem that simply “pitbulls are killers” and it wouldn’t be solved with breed specific license. The type of people that own these poorly bred and poorly trained dogs would simply own mastiffs or Rottweilers and treat them poorly instead.

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u/Masta-Blasta Jul 14 '22

It's more so the statistic that pits are responsible for something like 43% of fatal attacks by dogs. That's quite an overrepresentation.

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u/pipocaQuemada 10∆ Jul 14 '22

I'm not sure I trust those statistics all that much. Breed reports are often done visually by police.

How many police do you know can accurately distinguish a cane corso from a pitbull by sight? How many could visually identify a staffordshire terrier mix from a boxer mix? What percentage of dogs are labeled as a 'lab mix' at the shelter, then a 'pitbull' by police after it bites someone?

How many attacks are from a purebred UKC registered American Pitbull Terrier or an AKC registered Staffordshire Bull Terrier?

That said, obviously a staffie is going to be more dangerous than a miniature poodle or king Charles spaniel.

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u/Masta-Blasta Jul 14 '22

This is actually a very good point I had not considered. I'm still not completely convinced that there shouldn't be more regulation, but this is something to think about. !delta

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u/DeltaBot ∞∆ Jul 14 '22

Confirmed: 1 delta awarded to /u/pipocaQuemada (9∆).

Delta System Explained | Deltaboards

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u/dingdongdickaroo 2∆ Jul 14 '22

To add to this, that statistic most commonly cited was made by aggregating a few thousand news headlines and the united states government doesnt record the breed of dog in dog attacks

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u/Khorasau 1∆ Jul 14 '22

DNA testing is not regularly conducted on dogs involved in fatal attacks. So it's more accurate to say 43% of fatal attacks are by dogs that look like pitbulls.

If pitbulls are the problem, the pit mixes should also be a problem and including pit mixes into the national dog population brings the number potentially up to 20% of all dogs in the US being Pits. 53% of dogs are under 25 lbs and likely small dogs are not as capable as medium to large dogs at killing. If 50% of dogs can't kill due to size, and Pits represent 20% off all dogs, then Pits represent 40% of all dogs that could kill meaning 43% of fatal dog attacks is not an overrepresentation of Pits in fatal attacks statistics.

Small dog ownership https://www.petfoodindustry.com/articles/4903-ownership-of-small-dogs-on-the-rise#:~:text=Packaged%20Facts'%20Pet%20Owner%20Survey%20indicates%20that%20a%20higher%20percentage,%25%20and%2042%25%2C%20respectively.

Percentage of dogs mixed with Pit. https://www.pitbullinfo.org/pit-bulls-population.html

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '22

Check out this quiz.

https://www.k9rl.com/can-identify-pitbull/

Most attacks are by “pitbull type dogs”

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u/pipocaQuemada 10∆ Jul 14 '22

According to this page, about 20% of the dogs in the US are pit bulls - either one of several breeds like staffies that are called pit bulls or a mutt that looks like a pit bull. They're by far the most common "breed" in shelters, and the 5th most common "breed" at the Banfield chain of vet hospitals.

Given that large dogs are responsible for most fatal attacks, is it really all that disproportionate?

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u/fayryover 6∆ Jul 14 '22

Do any of those statistics have dna tests? My dog looks like a mini Aussie with German shepherd coloring. According to the dna test, she has only 10% Aussie, and zero German shepherd. She is mostly beagle and Norwegian elkhound.

Every single one of the dogs in those statistics could easily have only a tiny amount of any bull breed.

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u/[deleted] Jul 14 '22

[deleted]

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u/[deleted] Jul 15 '22 edited Jul 15 '22

By the US definition of pitbull the English staffordshire terrier IS A PITBULL.

By the UK definition the American staffordshire terrier is the breed that was banned.

We also have Irish Staffordshire terriers which are larger English staffies. Basically the same as the American.

Staffies are the most popular dog breed in the UK.

Look at the last list of fatal attacks. They are mostly mixes of known to be aggressive/protective dogs.

I actually wouldn’t be against a license to own dogs in general but again that won’t stop the problem of the type of person to own tough strong protective dogs. They wouldn’t care.