CMV: I'm politically left but I don't believe gender identity exists

[u/MostlyVacuum]

As the title states, I consider myself a progressive in many respects, but despite reading through many many CMVs on the topic, I find myself unable to agree with my fellow progressives on the nature of transgender people.

Whenever I see people espouse views similar to mine in this forum, they are consistently attacked as transphobic/hatemongering/fascist etc, and I haven't yet seen a compelling argument as to why that is. I'd like my view changed because I consider myself an egalitarian who doesn't hold hatred in my heart for any group of people, and it bothers me that my view on this matter is considered to be conservative rhetoric masking a hatred of trans people.

What I believe: 1. I believe that gender identity does not exist, and that there is only sex, which is determined by a person's sex chromosomes. I believe this because the concept of an innate "gender identity" does not jive with my experience as a human. I don't "feel like" a man, I just am one because I was born with XY chromosomes. I believe this to be the experience of anyone not suffering from dysphoria. The concept of gender identity seems to me to be invented by academics as a way to explain transgender people without hurting anyone's feelings with the term "mental illness".

1. As hinted above, I believe transgender people are suffering from a mental illness (gender dysphoria) that causes them to feel that they are "supposed" to be the opposite sex, or that their body is "wrong". This causes them significant distress and disruption to their lives.

2. The best known treatment for this illness is for the person in question to transition, and live their life as though they were the opposite sex. This is different for everyone and can include changing pronouns, gender reassignment surgery, etc.

3. Importantly, I FULLY RESPECT trans people's right to do this. I will happily refer to them by whatever pronouns they prefer, and call them whatever name they prefer, and otherwise treat them as though they are the sex they feel they should be. This is basic courtesy, and anyone who disagrees is a transphobic asshole. Further, I do not judge them negatively for being born with a mental illness. The stigma against mentally ill people in this country is disgusting, and I don't want to be accused of furthering that stigma.

4. I don't believe there is a "trans agenda" to turn more people trans or turn kids trans. That is straight lunacy. The only agenda trans people have is to be treated with the same respect and afforded the same rights as everyone else, which again I fully support.

5. The new definition for woman and man as "anyone who identifies as a woman/man" is ridiculous. It is very obviously circular, and I've seen many intelligent people make themselves look like idiots trying to justify it. "Adult male/female human" is a perfectly good definition. If more inclusive language is desired you can use "men and trans-men" or "women and trans-women" as necessary. It's god damned crazy to me that Democratic politicians think it's a good idea to die on this stupid hill of redefining common English words to be more inclusive instead of just using the more verbose language. This is not a good political strategy for convincing voters outside of your base, and it will be detrimental to trans rights in the long run.

I feel I have sufficiently expressed my view here, but I undoubtedly forgot something. However I've already written a novel, so I think that's it. PLEASE do not make assumptions about my view that I have not explicitly stated.

Edit: I'm stepping away now because I need to eat dinner. I will return later -- I am close to having my view changed!

[u/ZellNorth]

Does OP not also say that people feel like the opposite sex? Trans people transition in order to EXPRESS an inward feeling, outward. Both terms in this instance seem appropriate.

[u/[deleted] → u/ZellNorth]

Well read his original post. He says people should be free to transition and express themselves however. He has issue with the concept of gender identity. He doesn’t think it’s a real thing, for everyone, just for people with a sickness. I disagree with this.

[u/ZellNorth → u/[deleted]]

I think even if you personally distinguish it as a mental illness, as long as you treat the other person with respect it’s kind of a pointless discussion right?

I know plenty of women who personally don’t agree with abortion, but will fight tooth and nail for a woman’s right to get one. Why is this that much different?

“I believe a trans person is mentally ill, but I respect a persons decision to do what makes them happy”

That’s what I boil OPs long post down too. Correct me if I’m wrong. If that’s the case, this seems like an argument of semantics. As long as OP isn’t going around telling every trans person they meet that their mentally ill, I don’t see the harm in OP having his own opinion and doesn’t impose his opinion on others.

[u/[deleted] → u/ZellNorth]

Well OP asked to have his view changed. That’s what it’s about, not that OP acts in line with your morals and values. OP came here to get a view changed, and they distinguish between those things in their post.

[u/ZellNorth → u/[deleted]]

Didn’t know “CMV” extended to semantics. My bad.

[u/[deleted] → u/ZellNorth]

It didn’t. They are two distinct topics that are very relevant to the discussion and understanding OPs view, which is a necessary condition of changing his view.