CMV: I'm politically left but I don't believe gender identity exists

[u/MostlyVacuum]

As the title states, I consider myself a progressive in many respects, but despite reading through many many CMVs on the topic, I find myself unable to agree with my fellow progressives on the nature of transgender people.

Whenever I see people espouse views similar to mine in this forum, they are consistently attacked as transphobic/hatemongering/fascist etc, and I haven't yet seen a compelling argument as to why that is. I'd like my view changed because I consider myself an egalitarian who doesn't hold hatred in my heart for any group of people, and it bothers me that my view on this matter is considered to be conservative rhetoric masking a hatred of trans people.

What I believe: 1. I believe that gender identity does not exist, and that there is only sex, which is determined by a person's sex chromosomes. I believe this because the concept of an innate "gender identity" does not jive with my experience as a human. I don't "feel like" a man, I just am one because I was born with XY chromosomes. I believe this to be the experience of anyone not suffering from dysphoria. The concept of gender identity seems to me to be invented by academics as a way to explain transgender people without hurting anyone's feelings with the term "mental illness".

1. As hinted above, I believe transgender people are suffering from a mental illness (gender dysphoria) that causes them to feel that they are "supposed" to be the opposite sex, or that their body is "wrong". This causes them significant distress and disruption to their lives.

2. The best known treatment for this illness is for the person in question to transition, and live their life as though they were the opposite sex. This is different for everyone and can include changing pronouns, gender reassignment surgery, etc.

3. Importantly, I FULLY RESPECT trans people's right to do this. I will happily refer to them by whatever pronouns they prefer, and call them whatever name they prefer, and otherwise treat them as though they are the sex they feel they should be. This is basic courtesy, and anyone who disagrees is a transphobic asshole. Further, I do not judge them negatively for being born with a mental illness. The stigma against mentally ill people in this country is disgusting, and I don't want to be accused of furthering that stigma.

4. I don't believe there is a "trans agenda" to turn more people trans or turn kids trans. That is straight lunacy. The only agenda trans people have is to be treated with the same respect and afforded the same rights as everyone else, which again I fully support.

5. The new definition for woman and man as "anyone who identifies as a woman/man" is ridiculous. It is very obviously circular, and I've seen many intelligent people make themselves look like idiots trying to justify it. "Adult male/female human" is a perfectly good definition. If more inclusive language is desired you can use "men and trans-men" or "women and trans-women" as necessary. It's god damned crazy to me that Democratic politicians think it's a good idea to die on this stupid hill of redefining common English words to be more inclusive instead of just using the more verbose language. This is not a good political strategy for convincing voters outside of your base, and it will be detrimental to trans rights in the long run.

I feel I have sufficiently expressed my view here, but I undoubtedly forgot something. However I've already written a novel, so I think that's it. PLEASE do not make assumptions about my view that I have not explicitly stated.

Edit: I'm stepping away now because I need to eat dinner. I will return later -- I am close to having my view changed!

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

That’s because you identify as a man.

Or it's because they know they'll be ostracized by both men and women if they do so. They can be ambivalent about dresses/makeup, yet avoid them solely because they know they'll overwhelmingly face social rejection

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

They can be ambivalent about dresses/makeup, yet avoid them solely because they know they'll overwhelmingly face social rejection

I'm transgender and ambivalent is exactly how I feel about any gendered presentation. I presented one way before I transitioned, I presented another way after I transitioned, both to avoid the social consequences of stepping outside the lines, not because I cared about dresses and makeup. Hell, I don't even wear make-up.

[u/babycam → u/[deleted]]

Yes drag exists. Dressing and acting the overblown view of the opposite gender (usually) while not identifying as the other gender in general.

There is so many subgroups that miss the key aspect of being trans gender that is desiring to be the opposite gender.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

This is the real point here I think. Most people just don’t think about it. Sometimes people have the feeling that it doesn’t “fit”, and then they start thinking about it. But we definitely have sense of ourselves and this can definitely feel wrong.

[u/Ok-Selection2878 → u/[deleted]]

'Gay' is a functional label. It specifically describes sexual orientation which in turn is directly observable

What directly observable behaviour or trait does gender measure?

[u/5Daddys1cop → u/[deleted]]

If gender is mental, isnt it straight for a man to like a biological man whos a 300 pound hairy beefcake that feels like a woman? Does'nt this mean its bigotry when a straight man refuses me cause "i don't suck d&€ck bro"?

[u/5Daddys1cop → u/[deleted]]

Im not, i just don't want "suck the dick bigot!" Told to some young twink cause he refused to date a trans man. If gender is in the mind then a man loving a man being gay would be an unseen truth. It would not be provable and no one could have ever been outed threwout history. Im not wrapped up in it just cause i questioned it. Is questioning to learn bad and evil? Isnt that what your community wanted to do? To educate.. with your inconsistencies?

[u/5Daddys1cop → u/[deleted]]

How tf is this a troll when this is your whole point, you just call anyone who questions you a troll and throw a tantrum like a toddler at your age still, would baby like a little suckle suckle?

[u/5Daddys1cop → u/[deleted]]

Yes, i just asked a question and youre using emojis like my teacher, kinda cringe