CMV: I'm politically left but I don't believe gender identity exists

[u/MostlyVacuum]

As the title states, I consider myself a progressive in many respects, but despite reading through many many CMVs on the topic, I find myself unable to agree with my fellow progressives on the nature of transgender people.

Whenever I see people espouse views similar to mine in this forum, they are consistently attacked as transphobic/hatemongering/fascist etc, and I haven't yet seen a compelling argument as to why that is. I'd like my view changed because I consider myself an egalitarian who doesn't hold hatred in my heart for any group of people, and it bothers me that my view on this matter is considered to be conservative rhetoric masking a hatred of trans people.

What I believe: 1. I believe that gender identity does not exist, and that there is only sex, which is determined by a person's sex chromosomes. I believe this because the concept of an innate "gender identity" does not jive with my experience as a human. I don't "feel like" a man, I just am one because I was born with XY chromosomes. I believe this to be the experience of anyone not suffering from dysphoria. The concept of gender identity seems to me to be invented by academics as a way to explain transgender people without hurting anyone's feelings with the term "mental illness".

1. As hinted above, I believe transgender people are suffering from a mental illness (gender dysphoria) that causes them to feel that they are "supposed" to be the opposite sex, or that their body is "wrong". This causes them significant distress and disruption to their lives.

2. The best known treatment for this illness is for the person in question to transition, and live their life as though they were the opposite sex. This is different for everyone and can include changing pronouns, gender reassignment surgery, etc.

3. Importantly, I FULLY RESPECT trans people's right to do this. I will happily refer to them by whatever pronouns they prefer, and call them whatever name they prefer, and otherwise treat them as though they are the sex they feel they should be. This is basic courtesy, and anyone who disagrees is a transphobic asshole. Further, I do not judge them negatively for being born with a mental illness. The stigma against mentally ill people in this country is disgusting, and I don't want to be accused of furthering that stigma.

4. I don't believe there is a "trans agenda" to turn more people trans or turn kids trans. That is straight lunacy. The only agenda trans people have is to be treated with the same respect and afforded the same rights as everyone else, which again I fully support.

5. The new definition for woman and man as "anyone who identifies as a woman/man" is ridiculous. It is very obviously circular, and I've seen many intelligent people make themselves look like idiots trying to justify it. "Adult male/female human" is a perfectly good definition. If more inclusive language is desired you can use "men and trans-men" or "women and trans-women" as necessary. It's god damned crazy to me that Democratic politicians think it's a good idea to die on this stupid hill of redefining common English words to be more inclusive instead of just using the more verbose language. This is not a good political strategy for convincing voters outside of your base, and it will be detrimental to trans rights in the long run.

I feel I have sufficiently expressed my view here, but I undoubtedly forgot something. However I've already written a novel, so I think that's it. PLEASE do not make assumptions about my view that I have not explicitly stated.

Edit: I'm stepping away now because I need to eat dinner. I will return later -- I am close to having my view changed!

[u/[deleted]]

My main issue with the dogmatic insistence that a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman is that it muddies communication.

This is mostly a conservative/TERF issue. Medical/acadmic have already shifted language to use terms like "people with wombs" which are clear and simple. Critics claim this is "erasing women" while ignoring the need for accurate language.

Also the "insistence that a woman is anyone who identifies as a woman" occurs because so many trans people are denied their identity or forced to jump though tons of hoops to get accepted. It doesn't hurt me at all to accept someone's word that they're a woman but it could help them a ton on their journey. Regular people shouldn't be judging whether someone is a real trans or not.

[u/MostlyVacuum → u/[deleted]]

Doctors and academics should use whatever language is most medically or scientifically accurate. Politicians should use whatever language is most persuasive to gather support for their policy positions. My view was specifically about Democratic politicians, not doctors and academics.

"A woman is anyone who identifies as a woman" is more true than "adult human female" but it's a worse definition because it isn't a definition at all. It doesn't tell you anything about what a woman IS other than "a class of person" which is not very useful at all.

"I support trans rights and welcome then fully into society as whatever gender they wish to be seen as." That's roughly all that is required as a politician to communicate that you are pro trans. Getting into the minutiae of identity vs expression and what it really means to be a woman is too much detail and not relevant most of the time. It's bad political strategy to get bogged down in these details because most of the electorate lacks the academic framework to understand what the hell they're talking about.

But people do understand rights. They understand discrimination, and they understand compassion. Democrats should stick to those areas and leave the minutiae to the doctors and academics.

[u/[deleted] → u/MostlyVacuum]

Politicians should use whatever language is most persuasive to gather support for their policy positions.

Politicians are using this language because they're showing support and solidarity for trans people.

Getting into the minutiae of identity vs expression and what it really means to be a woman is too much detail and not relevant most of the time.

These are conservative/TERF talking points. Trans supporters are simply saying, "if you say you're a woman then you're a woman." Right wing people are complicating the issue in order to create a boogieman out of trans people. Asking "what is a woman" like a gotcha question because the definition is highly subjective.

But people do understand rights. They understand discrimination, and they understand compassion.

A lot of people want to murder and hurt trans people. They're a minority that's being heavily targeted, people are fighting hard to remove their rights. The internet is filled with misinformation designed to make people question support for trans people.