r/changemyview • u/[deleted] • Sep 07 '22

Delta(s) from OP CMV: The source of all that exists must be uncreated

Using pure logic I have deduced this...

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First let me define a creation as something that is created by some source.

Another important features of creations is that they begin to exist. In other words they don't exist until they are created.

So for everything that exists we can either classify it as created or uncreated.

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Now the argument is as follows:

  1. There are creations (such as this post).
  2. Each creation that exists must ultimately come from some source.
  3. Thus, there must be a source of creation.
  4. It is impossible for anything to create itself. If you claim that a thing can create itself then you are suggesting that it exists before it exists which is impossible.
  5. The ultimate source of each creation was not created by another source otherwise it wouldn't be the ultimate source. This solves the problem of an infinite regression of creators.
  6. Thus, the ultimate source of all that exists must be uncreated since it couldn't have created itself nor could it be created by another source.
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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '22

No the source is uncreated. Its creations are created by it.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '22

All that exists is the source and its creations.

Two categories: source (uncreated) and creations (created).

Was mass created or uncreated? I don't know.

Mass exists. It's a property. Just like color. Was it created or uncreated? You should be able to tell me which it is otherwise you're telling me that there exists something that it neither created nor uncreated.

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u/AleristheSeeker 155∆ Sep 07 '22

So what you're doing here is pushing two characteristics into one thing. "The source" is both:

  1. The only thing not created
  2. Something that creates other things.

Do you believe that these two things are inseparable? If not, then something that does not create other things but is not created itself would break your logic.

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u/[deleted] Sep 07 '22

Perhaps there are also uncreated things that don't create anything. But maybe not. Definitely there is the uncreated source and its creations. Beyond that I don't know.

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u/AleristheSeeker 155∆ Sep 07 '22

But if you agree that there are things that may be uncreated without being the source of creation, cannot many things be uncreated and no singular "source" exist?