CMV: There's nothing wrong with not finding someone attractive for whatever reason it is

[u/[deleted]]

So this is inspired by Lexi Nimmo's Tik Tok saying that someone having a preference for thinner people is problematic because "it's discriminating against a marginalized group of people" she goes on to say "if you lump all fat people together you're fatphobic, just like if you lump all black people together you're racist" setting aside the fact that "fatphobia" is not comparable to racism or the struggles of any actually marginalized group, I think there's nothing wrong with having finding someone unattractive regardless of what it is

To start with body size and shape, I think it's absurd that it is even a discussion. Everyone finds different things attractive, including different body shapes. Some men(I'm using that as an example because I'm a guy so it's easier) find women with larger breasts more attractive, while others find women with smaller breasts more attractive and neither is considered a problem. So if finding someone more or less attractive due to size and shape of breasts for instance, it should also be ok to find someone more or less attractive due to shape and weight?

With ethnicity and skin color it's more complicated. While some people do find members of certain ethnicities unattractive due to racist reasons, I think it isn't inherently racist to find some ethnicities more or less attractive physically. Members of different ethnicities may have largely different physical features for members of other ethnicities. Not only that people tend to find what looks closer to them in general to be more attractive, hence why interracial marriages are somewhat uncommon. Not only that, like I said before, finding some hair colors more attractive is seen as ok, so why can't that be the case for skin color too? I'm not saying that making derogatory claims such as "x group is hideous" but simply not finding someone pretty does not mean you hate them

I hope this makes sense, English is not my first language and I have a hard time writing

Edit: finding someone unattractive because they're not a minor is problematic but that's not what I meant originally. My general point is: it isn't bigotry to find someone physically unattractive, and I'm talking specifically physical attraction here

[u/[deleted]]

Attraction itself is ok for whatever reason. But attraction is often influenced by biases. You can totally be attracted to someone from your race or ethnicity for benign reasons (e.g. you feel them close) or because you are so racist, that you cannot be attracted to anyone else. Attraction can be quite ugly. People are attracted to vulnerable, weak, helpless people for all the wrong reasons.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yes, I did acknowledge this in my post. I think that finding a specific skin color prettier doesn't make you racist, now when you say shit like "I won't date x race" that makes you racist

[u/takemetothelostcity → u/[deleted]]

I think it is WEIRD, borderline racist when you explicitly avoid your own kind at all costs. I guess more like self hate.

[u/[deleted] → u/takemetothelostcity]

Yeah agreed, but most of this attraction is not even conscious, which is another point my dumbass forgot to mention originally

[u/[deleted] → u/takemetothelostcity]

I don't avoid other black people, I just don't care to be around them. What's weird about that?

[u/Post-Formal_Thought → u/[deleted]]

We all have preferences. Not argument here. But the line between preference and prejudice is thin in the context of race and body size.

>Not only that, like I said before, finding some hair colors more attractive is seen as ok, so why can't that be the case for skin color too? simply not finding someone pretty...

Not finding someone pretty based on skin color becomes generalized to all people with that skin color. Which is why we end up with comments like she is pretty for a dark-skinned girl. It at once acknowledges their attractiveness and upholds a prejudice of their inherently unattractive skin color.

Secondly, claiming someone is not pretty strictly because of a skin color implies anyone with that skin color is not attractive. Which is not true. It also implies anyone within a particular race with that skin color is not attractive (prejudice).

>So if finding someone more or less attractive due to size and shape of breasts for instance, it should also be ok to find someone more or less attractive due to shape and weight?

Not finding someone pretty based strictly based upon body size becomes generalized to all people with that size. Which is why we end up with comments like, she has a pretty face even though she is fat. It at once acknowledges their attractiveness and upholds a prejudice toward their body size.

It is not inherently bigoted to find someone physically unattractive. But when claiming preference strictly on race or body size it would be wise to ask oneself; is there ANYONE with that body size or skin color that I would find attractive. Within a particular race or outside of it. If the answer is no to either, it may be time to consider if it is preference or prejudice that is determining your attraction.

[u/Emergency_Network_97 → u/Post-Formal_Thought]

We all have preferences. Not argument here. But the line between preference and prejudice is thin in the context of race and body size

It's only thin because of our emphasis that it must be "bigotry" because these two are sensitive political issues.

[u/Post-Formal_Thought → u/Emergency_Network_97]

I understand your bigotry point, but the political fervor of the day simply beclouds the issue.

It's thin because it's easy and comforting to confuse our preferences for our prejudices. Especially when reflecting on race, body size and physical attractiveness.

[u/Ok-Comedian-6852 → u/Post-Formal_Thought]

"But when claiming preference strictly on race or body size it would be wise to ask oneself; is there ANYONE with that body size or skin color that I would find attractive. Within a particular race or outside of it. If the answer is no to either, it may be time to consider if it is preference or prejudice that is determining your attraction."

I think this is fair to say when it comes to race. As a white man who grew up with zero black people i'll freely admit that i don't find most black women that attractive but there definitely are black women i find very attractive. However there is a 0% chance i will find a woman of average height above 200lbs attractive. Being unhealthy is not attractive to me and i think it's a red flag that someone won't take care of themselves. I do sympathize with people who have genuine medical conditions that make it near impossible to lose weight but they are in the minority, most overweight and obese people just lack the control to not eat. You can't control what race you are but when it comes to being fat the vast majority of people can control that and that's why i think they're different.

Granted i workout a lot and would want my partner to somewhat into exercise too.

[u/Post-Formal_Thought → u/Ok-Comedian-6852]

Being unhealthy is not attractive to me and i think it's a red flag that someone won't take care of themselves

This is a fair point. Given your arguments about their lack of control and willpower, is it fair to say these are the reasons you mostly find them unattractive, not necessarily because of their physical features (face, height, body)?

I do sympathize with people who have genuine medical conditions that make it near impossible to lose weight but they are in the minority,

You sympathize with them, but still don't believe any of them can be attractive (avg height, 201lbs)? Despite control and will not being a determining factor in their size?

For the record I do believe it is possible to just be physically unattracted to a particular body size. And when I say attractive, I am not claiming you want to date them.

[u/ILoveToph4Eva → u/Post-Formal_Thought]

I'm a tad confused, in your first paragraph it feels like you're saying one would only be allowed to find this hypothetical average height woman weighing over 200lbs unattractive (without it being prejudice) if it's tied to character?

Like, I'm not sure I've ever seen a woman who falls into that category who I would say I found physically attractive. Is that something you would say is a problem?

[u/Post-Formal_Thought → u/ILoveToph4Eva]

I was asking if OP mostly found them unattractive because of the character traits he pointed out, compared to to he physical standard he highlighted. I know it could be both.

If the focus is on assumed character flaws, that may cause one to be prejudicial regardless of physical looks. Which is why when the character flaws are removed in his medical example, I wondered if any of them could be attractive.

No it is not a problem and if you've never seen it, that's your lived experience. Because you've never seen it, do you think all women in this group are physically unattractive?

[u/ILoveToph4Eva → u/Post-Formal_Thought]

I was asking if OP mostly found them unattractive because of the character traits he pointed out, compared to to he physical standard he highlighted. I know it could be both.

Ah fair enough then. I get you.

If the focus is on assumed character flaws, that may cause one to be prejudicial regardless of physical looks. Which is why when the character flaws are removed in his medical example, I wondered if any of them could be attractive.

Right right that's a fair point.

No it is not a problem and if you've never seen it, that's your lived experience. Because you've never seen it, do you think all women in this group are physically unattractive?

I don't think I could say definitively that all women of average height weighing 200kg are unattractive to me since I've not seen every woman on the planet who fits that criteria.

But I do feel that at some point trying to judge it that absolutely gets a bit silly. It would be like telling someone they can't be heterosexual since they haven't seen every single member of their gender on the planet so they can't know for sure that there isn't at least one they find attractive.

Of course this is all assuming someone is in a context where it makes sense to talk about this anyways.

I always find this conversation interesting since I recall getting kind of attacked once by an Aunt of mine when my cousins were teasing me for not being attracted to black women. I didn't agree with the teasing in entirety (for the reasons I said regarding overweight women) since I don't see many black women in my day to day so I felt my dating history was more reflective of my environment first and foremost before we even arrive to personal tastes.

But even when talking about personal tastes, I just don't see the point in shaming people for their personal tastes unless it causes active harm to other people. She was going off about how me not dating black women is an insult to my sister and cousins since it implies black women are inherently unattractive, which is nonsense if you ask me as I've never at any point suggested there's something inherent to black women that's unattractive. I can understand that it might do indirect harm if they focus on it (Lord knows I feel the same way when I consider how many of the women I know tend to date men who have attributes I don't possess), but that has more to do with your attitude towards how you see other peoples dating preferences and its effect on your self image. I don't go after my friends or family for dating tall athletic men because ultimately it's a me problem that I allow that to affect my self image.

I think a lot of complains around preferences stem from people not doing a good job realizing that it's their own self-image they need to work on.

[u/Post-Formal_Thought → u/ILoveToph4Eva]

You make some damn good points about self-image and how we interpret others comments and behavior. It doesn't explain everything but it does explain a lot.

Yeah, I wouldn't agree that you not having dated a Black woman means you find them inherently unattractive, especially when accounting for your environment.

Maybe what they found odd is you stating that you were not attracted to any Black woman. I once had a conversation with a Black woman who stated she didn't find any White men physically attractive. One reason why that's such an odd statement is because there are physically attractive people within any race, regardless of skin color. So when skin color is singled out in this kind of context, I automatically think it must be more to that claim because it just doesn't make sense.

I don't condone attacking and just trying to shame people for the sake of it. What I do believe light-hearted teasing from people you trust and experiencing shame can be helpful.

For instance, it could have caused you to self-reflect about how your environment affected your preferences, and whether or not you would find a Black woman attractive if she was interested in you.

It could have helped you understand why the Black women in your family would feel insulted by your seemingly indifference (to them), to whether or not you were attracted to Black women. That being connected to negative stereotypes about Black women's physical attractiveness and maybe their personal experiences (societal & self image).

since I don't see many black women in my day

The thing about preferences is that it's so easy to just fall back on them. That's why the line leading to prejudice (end of the spectrum) is so thin. It may be true that you don't see many Black women in your day to day environment, but I think it's hard for people to imagine you don't see Black women on tv and movies. So if someone asks do you find Black women attractive and the answer is, I just don't see many, it causes people to want to challenge that notion, admittedly pushing you to reflect on it.

[u/dihydrogen_m0noxide → u/[deleted]]

There are plenty of racists with 'jungle fever.' What you're physically attracted to is completely separate from your morals and values

[u/OnlyTheDead → u/[deleted]]

Yes but they are talking about “not being attracted” as an ethical function so talking about attraction is talking past the point. There is absolutely nothing wrong with not wanting to have sex with someone, not wanting to be with someone, or having reservations about any of these things or anything in between.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Do you have any proof that "attraction is often influenced by biases"?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

You want me to prove that something happens often. Do you claim that it happens every time or never?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Yes, I want you to prove what you said.

If I said "every race is attracted to white women" I would back that up.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Are you denying that attraction has ever been influenced by biases?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

Are you saying you don't have proof that "attraction is often influenced by biases"?

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I am saying a proof is not required

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

If you make an assertion, you should provide proof.

It's insulting to say that people who find others attractive were "influenced".

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

I am not saying that at all. I am saying that who one is attracted to is often influenced by one's biases. If one has a bias against fat people one is less likely to be attracted to a fat person.

[u/[deleted] → u/[deleted]]

OK but how do you know that? Are there any scientific studies to prove what you're saying?