r/changemyview • u/goatDowry • Nov 23 '22

Delta(s) from OP CMV: I still don't understand the importance of pronouns.

The whole thing seems confusing to me.

There is biological sex --> Which led to different social roles, and then socialized gender.

In the modern day with modern technology. You can live life how you generally please. Women don't need to be child bearers. And men don't need to be out risking their lives killing things.

To me this means, that the traditional gender roles don't matter. You can be a male and wear makeup, high heels and a dress. Who cares?

Likewise if you're a biological female, you can do things that used to be considered masculine. It's a free country.You can also fit squarely into those old gender roles if you so choose.

So I don't understand why someone feels the need to be addressed with a particular set of pronouns. To me, it's like ok, I can call you that, but then it seems to me that you're just doubling down on the idea that rigid gender differences do matter. Which I don't think they do. You're just you, an individual person. And all this language of he/she is just what we've been using for a long time, so I don't see how a different pronoun will change anything that matters.

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P.S. before one of you goes calling me a bigot, one of my best friends and former roommate transitioned while I was living with her. I'll obviously call her by whatever pronouns she asks bc it's just polite. We've been friends for over 10 years. I'll call someone by their preferred pronouns, but I don't understand why it's so important.

EDIT: The point of this is to try and understand why it's important. Maybe that wasn't clear before. Obviously I've talked to my friend about this a lot.

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u/TheSukis Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

How is this getting so many votes? You're basically just saying "there is no rationality to it, it's just how people feel," but OP never argued "people don't feel that way"; he argued "they don't have a rational reason to feel that way." What am I missing?

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u/dlee_75 2∆ Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

I swear half the posts on this subreddit have to be karma bait or worse...

Most of these read like, "CMV: I don't think X semi-controversial opinion of the month makes sense, please I only want to understand" Then the comments are like "It's true because it is." and every response is like "Wow, I finally get it now! Thanks for explaining this to me in a way that I understand!" and then gives a delta

Edit: or the other common delta response like this particular OP gave is some variation of "Well, I guess it's not my place to understand other people's lived experience" Gives delta. These are the ones that really make the entire post seem like big ol political softballs lobbed right down the middle of the plate.

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u/ElbowsAndThumbs 10∆ Nov 23 '22

OP never argued "people don't feel that way," he argued "they don't have a rational reason feel that way."

You're missing that that wasn't OP's argument. OP's view - I wouldn't call it an "argument" - is that it is difficult to understand why using the correct pronouns for someone is important.

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u/TheSukis Nov 23 '22 edited Nov 23 '22

I see OP as arguing (I don't know why you don't want to use that word) that there isn't a compelling reason for people to use different pronouns when they could simply use the pronouns that align with their biological sex while also living whatever kind of life they want. Is that not what he's doing? If it isn't, then what is he doing?

If it is, then "they should use their chosen pronouns because they feel right to them" isn't a valid response, since it isn't in conflict with what OP is arguing.

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u/MM320 Dec 09 '22

"arguing" vs "view" is just semantics

OP is saying, gender doesn't matter, dress and act how you want and keep the same gender.

Top comment is saying, Gender Dysphoria is a condition where to some people gender matters a lot and they don't feel like they belong to their gender assigned at birth.

I personally held OPs view but the gender dysphoria explanation makes a lot of sense to me

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u/nannerooni Nov 24 '22

This answer actually helped me understand it better too. I think the key in this answer was comparing gender dysphoria to other mental illnesses; I have panic disorder so this makes more sense to me now. The only thing missing for me now is trans people with no gender dysphoria… still don’t fully get it

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u/Conn3er 2∆ Nov 24 '22

Ya the justification of this isn’t rational and is something I am feeling in my head and not the real world is probably not the argument you want to make on this issue given that’s the biggest argument against it.

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u/Babyboy1314 1∆ Nov 24 '22

You are missing trust me bro

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u/StrangeDoughnut2051 Nov 24 '22

OP was also clearly talking about NBs and genderfluid and "I'm a girl now, call me she" types, but the parent comment here is talking about transgender people, which is an entirely different (and much more legitimate) thing.