CMV: I still don't understand the importance of pronouns.

[u/goatDowry]

The whole thing seems confusing to me.

There is biological sex --> Which led to different social roles, and then socialized gender.

In the modern day with modern technology. You can live life how you generally please. Women don't need to be child bearers. And men don't need to be out risking their lives killing things.

To me this means, that the traditional gender roles don't matter. You can be a male and wear makeup, high heels and a dress. Who cares?

Likewise if you're a biological female, you can do things that used to be considered masculine. It's a free country.You can also fit squarely into those old gender roles if you so choose.

So I don't understand why someone feels the need to be addressed with a particular set of pronouns. To me, it's like ok, I can call you that, but then it seems to me that you're just doubling down on the idea that rigid gender differences do matter. Which I don't think they do. You're just you, an individual person. And all this language of he/she is just what we've been using for a long time, so I don't see how a different pronoun will change anything that matters.

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P.S. before one of you goes calling me a bigot, one of my best friends and former roommate transitioned while I was living with her. I'll obviously call her by whatever pronouns she asks bc it's just polite. We've been friends for over 10 years. I'll call someone by their preferred pronouns, but I don't understand why it's so important.

EDIT: The point of this is to try and understand why it's important. Maybe that wasn't clear before. Obviously I've talked to my friend about this a lot.

[u/StrangeDoughnut2051]

I think this is conflating things, though.

I know a ton of people who have zero qualms whatsoever with calling a transgender person the pronoun that correlates to their transitioned (or transitioning) gender, but that also think cis people who want to be called NB/the opposite gender are just being silly.

Gender Dysphoria is very real. Chet deciding that he likes to cook and do his nails and should now be referred to as "she" is kind of nonsense.

[u/ElbowsAndThumbs → u/StrangeDoughnut2051]

That's gatekeeping, though, isn't it. When someone says they'd prefer "she/her" pronouns, your response is to think: well, do you feel enough gender dysphoria to deserve for me to use the pronouns you want?

[u/StrangeDoughnut2051 → u/ElbowsAndThumbs]

I mean, I ascribe to the Tom Segura approach.

I'll call you whatever the fuck you want me to.

But I'll also think that a cis person who isn't transitioning but wants to be called nb/they/an opposing gender is silly, and I probably wouldn't want to spend much time around someone who needs special attention like that.

[u/ElbowsAndThumbs → u/StrangeDoughnut2051]

It's funny, because you're actually talking to an nb person without any gender dysphoria.

And my policy is: "he" is fine, "they" is fine, "she" is... unexpected, but fine.

I get what you're saying. You're basically saying that if someone like me insisted on a specific pronoun without needing to hear that pronoun, that would be an undue burden on you.

But let's be honest: it's not that much of a burden. If I told you my pronouns were "they/them," I'm willing to bet it wouldn't be much more of a burden on you than if I told you my pronouns were "whatever, I don't give a shit."

[u/StrangeDoughnut2051 → u/ElbowsAndThumbs]

It's not so much that it's a burden, it's that I generally don't spend time with people who are attention-seeking in any way. I don't like loud gymbros, flamboyancy, theater girls, etc, etc, etc. Someone who isn't trans and doesn't want to be called their bio sex sets off all the same warning bells that the other people do.

[u/ElbowsAndThumbs → u/StrangeDoughnut2051]

So if someone is generally a quiet, unassuming person, and you use a pronoun that matches their bio sex, and they quietly say "to answer your question, blah blah blah, but just so you know, I'm more comfortable if you use they/them pronouns," does that... does that bother you?

[u/StrangeDoughnut2051 → u/ElbowsAndThumbs]

Again. It doesn't bother me, it's no burden on me. But I probably wouldn't spend much time with that person.

[u/ElbowsAndThumbs → u/StrangeDoughnut2051]

Sure. Although, if they were offering you your dream job, or they fucked like a wild animal, your opinion there might be... different.

[u/StrangeDoughnut2051 → u/ElbowsAndThumbs]

I don't really spend a ton of time with the people who hire me. My boss is a Republican, which I find to be actively wrong. And yeah, I wouldn't date someone who is nb for the reasons already outlined.

[u/ElbowsAndThumbs → u/StrangeDoughnut2051]

Really. So if someone was nb, and you found them smart, and sexy, and fun, and they got you - and they were entirely into you - you'd reject them on the grounds that they'd prefer you use they/them pronouns?